Seasons, rules and wild trout

[silverfox]

Just a reminder, PA fishing licenses went on sale on December 1st.

I bought the wild trout and habitat conservation "permits" (no idea why they're called permits, or why there is an actual printout of said permits). I figured I can't complain about the current wild trout management policies and then NOT buy the voluntary permit. I also bought the button and donated an extra $10 to the commission.

https://www.gonefishingpa.com/

Anyway, I know this following topic has been beaten to death over the years, but I stumbled on something on the PA fish and boat site that I don't recall seeing before.

Cuttin to the chase;
https://www.fishandboat.com/LearningCenter/FAQs/Pages/Fish.aspx

5. It's my understanding that after Labor Day the extended trout season goes into effect. I'm a little unclear on how the rules apply to wild trout streams that aren't on the list of waters approved for stocking. I know I cannot keep any trout from the wild trout streams, but can I fish catch and release? Or are these waters closed to fishing now?

The only waters the Commission closes to fishing are the designated stocked trout waters which are closed from March 1 until the opening day of trout season. It is unlawful to fish in them for any species during that period of time.

The Commission does not prohibit fishing in other waters which contain wild trout even when it is unlawful to keep them. So it is not a crime to fish in those waters during the extended trout season.

However, the current regulations also do not specifically permit catch-and-release of wild trout during the time when they are out of season. This means that anglers who fish for trout in anything other than stocked trout waters or some specially regulated waters during the extended season could find themselves in violation of the law.

Here's how: The fishing regulations state that it is unlawful to catch fish except during their season. To protect those who may inadvertently catch a fish during the closed season, the regulations state that it is not a violation if a fish is caught during a closed season while legally fishing for another species if the fish is immediately returned unharmed to the water. This does create a strict liability standard: If the fish caught out of season is harmed or killed - even inadvertently - the fact that an angler says he is fishing on a catch-and-release basis is no defense.

Bottom Line: The current regulations are not intended to encourage fishing for any species during the closed season even on a "catch-and-release" basis, but it is not illegal to fish as long as the fish is immediately returned unharmed to the waters from taken. Anglers who target a fish during the closed season could potentially harm the fish and would then be liable for violating the closed season regulation.

This is an interesting interpretation of the law. Granted, I don't think the above situation would be very likely, but it's interesting to know the commission's stance on the matter. I also like to follow the law to the "T", so it's good to get some clarification on this. I don't know how I've never noticed this FAQ section before.

This all somewhat dovetails into the discussion in the other thread about seasonal closures. I guess, in general, the commission doesn't "encourage" fishing class A streams between labor day and the following opener, but it isn't illegal either. Unless you accidentally kill a trout and a CO happens to see it/find it/figure out it was you. Granted, it would take some bizzare alignment of the stars for such a situation to occur, it's still good to know the law.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

These "gray areas" they make are frustrating.
Why not just say fishing unstocked waters during the closed season is fine as long as no harvest occurs.

 

[gulfgreyhound]

Lots of Lawyers in Philly that need jobs,as interpreters? GG

 

[jifigz]

There is no gray area. I highlighted it in red. Now, I realize that they may be talking about streams that are not Class A and that are unstocked. Let's be serious here.....we all know that no one is getting fined for fishing those streams. And if someone were to say something you say, "oh, well I'm actually fishing for Fallfish" or suckers or whatever.

 

[silverfox]

I think their own statements are contradictory. Kind of why I posted this.

One says: [emphasis mine]

the regulations state that it is not a violation if a fish is caught during a closed season while legally fishing for another species if the fish is immediately returned unharmed to the water.

The other says:

: It is legal to fish for trout in Class A trout streams year-round,
with no harvest beginning the day after Labor Day through the opening
day of trout season the following year

I honestly think in this case it's a matter of the FAQ probably being out of date or not synced with what is in the actual regs book. OR there's been some change in guidance on this particular issue and they haven't updated the FAQ.

Regardless, I think they're saying 2 different things. I also don't think you would ever run into actual trouble in any case. Just found the FAQ thing interesting as I've never seen it before.

 

[jifigz]

If you read the regs carefully the part that you have to watch is that during the extended season all waters downstream of stocked waters are open to harvest. This means any wild trout stream, whether class A or not and not legally posted with another overriding regulation, is open to harvest. I'm not saying this is good, bad, or whatever but I'm saying that's the way that it is stated. So, a headwaters is stocked and below that is regular Class A water, then it is open to harvest after labor day even though Class A water technically isn't. If a section of stream is Class A ABOVE a stocked section then that Class A section is not open to harvest.

EDIT: FOR NEXT YEAR THEY HAVE CHANGED THE REGS. ALL CLASS A WATER IS NO HARVEST AFTER THAT CUTOFF DATE

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Certainly is a gray area on the explanation they provided but not the actual law.

"The Commission does not prohibit fishing in other waters which contain wild trout even when it is unlawful to keep them. So it is not a crime to fish in those waters during the extended trout season.


However, the current regulations also do not specifically permit catch-and-release of wild trout during the time when they are out of season. This means that anglers who fish for trout in anything other than stocked trout waters or some specially regulated waters during the extended season could find themselves in violation of the law.

So you can fish the waters during that time as long as you dont harvest but the law doesn't specifically permit C&R. Also you can fish those waters, its not a crime but you could be violating the law in doing so.

Ya totally clear.

Anyone with a bad reading comprehension, and there are lots, will read that and be confused as hell.

My point is they really made that water muddy with that explanation.
Could have just said you can fish as long as you dont harvest.

.

 

[SteveG]

They would not be in violation, because fishing under those conditions is not a violation, only harvesting a trout is.

The majority of regulations are based upon harvest, not the action of fishing itself, unless specifically noted. I think some work could definitely be done to clean up the verbiage for all the regulations. Baaically starting completely from scratch, so it's not a mess of clarifications and updates which have occurred over decades. Most of the laws and regs were initially created when most people kept everything they caught, and c&r wasn't as popular as it is today.

 

[Dave_W]

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Certainly is a gray area on the explanation they provided but not the actual law.

So you can fish the waters during that time as long as you dont harvest but the law doesn't specifically permit C&R. Also you can fish those waters, its not a crime but you could be violating the law in doing so.

Ya totally clear.

Anyone with a bad reading comprehension, and there are lots, will read that and be confused as hell.

My point is they really made that water muddy with that explanation.
Could have just said you can fish as long as you dont harvest.

I agree. Clear as mud. :roll:

They should really clean up those passages.

 

[dryflyguy]

And I thought we had this cleared up in last years annual debate on this issue!

 

[Swattie87]

dryflyguy wrote:
And I thought we had this cleared up in last years annual debate on this issue!

Getting an early start to our Cabin Fever topics this year. Late Fall 2019 has been colder/snowier than the last several years, which were relatively mild until Christmas, so it makes sense.

We've already gotten fishing during the spawn, and trespassing out of the way. Might as well knock this one out before the holidays too.

We still have navigable vs. non-navigable to look forward to. Spotburning discussions are still taboo (I think), but maybe we can get a temporary lifting of the ban if we run out of stuff to talk about during the first January Polar Vortex of the new year.

 

[Tups]

And who can forget “wild” v. “Stocked.” Or proper release technique.

 

[Swattie87]

^ Yeah, forgot about those. We're good to go. Our freezer is still full for the Winter. Carry on with the thread.

 

[silverfox]

Swattie87 wrote:

dryflyguy wrote:
And I thought we had this cleared up in last years annual debate on this issue!

Getting an early start to our Cabin Fever topics this year. Late Fall 2019 has been colder/snowier than the last several years, which were relatively mild until Christmas, so it makes sense.

We've already gotten fishing during the spawn, and trespassing out of the way. Might as well knock this one out before the holidays too.

We still have navigable vs. non-navigable to look forward to. Spotburning discussions are still taboo (I think), but maybe we can get a temporary lifting of the ban if we run out of stuff to talk about during the first January Polar Vortex of the new year.

LOL. So true.

Of course, what would we be talking about if it weren't for these controversial issues?

A few other common topics that seem to get rehashed on a regular basis;

• Is euro nymphing really fly fishing?
• Is dry fly fishing better than nymphing?
• Is this fish stocked or wild?
• How many rod vaults are too many?
• Have flat brimmers taken over the sport?
• Has social media ruined fly fishing?

 

[lestrout]

Yo silv - lol

And don't forget Tenkara. That is a subject that wasn't around 10 years ago.

 

[dc410]

As soon as the snow starts to fly ... it brings it all back to the surface.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Maybe for some but isnt it hard to have cabin fever when you are fishing?

The reason these topics get rehashed is because you guys get new members yearly.

 

[Mike]

One way to get rid of this topic is to not bring it up again or respond until such time that someone is cited. Whose ox has been gored to demand this much attention?

 

[afishinado]

Mike wrote:
One way to get rid of this topic is to not bring it up again or respond until such time that someone is cited. Whose ox has been gored to demand this much attention?

True enough^

This subject has been discussed every fall/winter season on PAFF for decades. I will guarantee, if anyone of the many thousands of posters present and past have either been cited or warned by the PFBC not to fish a an wild/unstocked trout streams between Labor Day and the trout opener, we would have heard about it.

I suppose this mountain is actually a mole hill. Anyway, fish on.

 

[supervdl]

Yes, let’s keep fishing I am going tomorrow