Salmon River advice???

[3wt7X]

I have a couple questions for the guys that fish the Salmon in NY. I'm Headed up in mid November for a Steelie trip, and I was wondering if anyone would share some tips on leader/ indicator set ups. I have fished the Salmon before with good success, but I felt under gunned with my normal 6-8 lb fluorocarbon rigs. I bought some of the 12 lb maxima that they were pushing at whitakers, but I felt like I could not get my flies down and keep them in the zone for long. Also, I have read several articles suggesting fishing "trasiition" for steelhead. What is considered transition water. Is it the run between a riffle and the pool, or is it the path of least resistance between two large holding pools? Any advice is appreciated!!!

 

[krayfish2]

As for tippet, I think the flow determined what size I used. At 300 - 400 cfs, I used 3x...maybe 4x if the pool was slow or smaller eggs were being used. If the river was pumping at 1300 cfs, iI was probably using 2x fluoro. I wasn't worried about tippet size keeping my fly from getting down as I probably had 4 giant shots on the line. The heavier tippet was for trying to control a fish in the heavy water.

Cant help much on the transition the transition question. Where we found them at that time of the year was in the water below riffs / runs. We looked for soft pockets near bank cuts or found them below riff just as the water started to flatten a bit. They weren't in the direct current but in little dead spots that might be twice the size of a bath tub. Take a fish from a spot, it's pretty likely that fish is replaced a few times during the day as they move through so remember where you got him and go back later for a different one. It always seemed to be the hottest in the first hour of daylight which equals 5am "hike in" with a headlamp. Don't miss it. LOL

Other tip is to fish next to PhilC on do what he's doing.

 

[CLSports]

Nymph leader setup does not need to be complicated. I have a 5-6' butt section of Maxima chameleon with a small swivel or tippet ring tied on the end. I leave a a tag end on the line about 2" to attach shot. I then add 3-4' of tippet usually 6-8 lb. test fluorocarbon. 6lb for lower clear water on sunny days and 8 any other time.

I will only use 12lb Maxima Ultragreen when I use my switch rod and I am swinging flies.

Transition water means the area where fish are moving from their holding water or lies when they rest to the next rest spot.

 

[geebee]

CLSports wrote:I leave a a tag end on the line about 2" to attach shot. I then add 3-4' of tippet

why would you fish with the shot 3-4 feet from the nymph ? :-?

won't that require a lot more shot or leave the fly 2 foot above the bottom ?

18" would be better wouldn't it ?

 

[CLSports]

Just a personal preference I suppose. There are many different opinions on the matter, but I like to keep the shot as far away from the sight of the fish and fly as possible. Steelhead on the SR are highly pressured and when they see stuff coming at them constantly all day long they just duck out of the way. I feel like it keeps the fly just off the bottom too and in their line of sight. These are bigger fish and may be holding just off the bottom in relatively warmer water. Very cold water you may need to adjust it.

 

[moon1284]

If you are indicating or nymphing, there's not a whole lot to it. Nymph this river just the same as you would anywhere else, only with heavier gear. Start your with maybe 20 to 15 lb, taper to 10, then have your tippet be 6-8lb test. 10', to 15' for the whole leader typically. You will not be under gunned with 6-8lb tippet, the water should be less than 500cfs. I used 6# this past Sunday and was fine. If you are using a fast action rod, maybe you want to jump to 8# or 10#, especially if its an 8wt less than 10'.

The SR really isn't technical fishing. Use as much weight as you need to get on the bottom (unless in the fly zones where there is a max weight). Transition water means somewhere in between the fast water and the slow pools (I think?). I saw reports of fishing the "transition" water and also wondered exactly what that meant.

Last Sunday all of the fish I saw caught were in riffles. I've heard plenty of talk that this is the best steelhead run ever, etc. I don't really buy it, there are a lot of fish but it seems par for the course for early Nov. I have hardly fished the SR this year though. KF2 is right on about it being hot at first light.

If you are unfamiliar with the water and your goal is to catch (the most) of fish, start at the LFZ. There really aren't many bad spots there. A negative is that typically the fish are much darker than they are lower in the river and don't fight as hard. You'll definitely get a lot of pro tips at the lower fly zone. In fact, I have never been anywhere in my life with as many fishing experts as the LFZ.

If you would rather catch a fewer bright fish rather than a more darker fish, stay downstream of Pineville. It will still be pretty crowded but generally the fish are much brighter. Unfortunately, you won't receive as many pro tips as you would in the Lower Fly Zone.

Or, if you want to support NY's equivalent of the Beav, you can fish the DSR. I've never fished it, but it (honestly) is the best water on the river for bright fish. Living so close to the SR, and knowing the politics behind it, I refuse to fish it. I can understand people driving in from out of town paying to fish that water though.

 

[geebee]

I have tickets for the DSR.

because its C&R for trouts, and i figured it would be less crowded for my first trip up. I plan to fish the LFZ and UFZ on Monday and Tuesday when hopefully most folks will be at work still.

I understand too, that locals are probably not happy at the loss of their water, but coming from Europe originally, most salmon and sea trout FF's would bite your arm for $200 a day fishing let alone $50...and isn't the bank opposite the DSR an actual private water fishing club ?

 

[3wt7X]

Thanks for the input everyone and I know indicator fishing is not rocket science. I just wanted to get some ideas on what has worked for other people. If I can make an adjustment based on some of your info and pick up an extra fish or two that would be great, and often times it is the little details that make a world of difference in fly fishing. Especially in a fisherie that I might got to once every two years. CLS sports, I like that set up idea, and I have heard good things about tippet rings, so I think I will give it a go.

 

[moon1284]

You have a good plan. I really don't fault anyone for fishing the DSR especially if they are making a long trip. it is the best part of the river for fresh fish.

The fly zones have nice water, unfortunately they are usually crowded and the fish up there are a little more beat up than down low. If you are swinging flies, there is much more room in the UFZ. Unfortunately, 99% of the time on the SR, nobody practices pool rotation. I can remember twice (both less crowded days) when that happened. It's too bad, it was a lot of fun.

 

[krayfish2]

Probably the 3 most impressive examples of catching I've seen up there.....

Behind museum, Asian guy using switch rod and an enormous uv prince on the swing. Asked to fish below us an murdered them

Again, behind museum when driftboat stopped and ran tangerine beads down the far bank that we couldn't reach due to flows. The stopped for 30 minutes, picked off 9-10 from right in front of us and then pulled anchor.

UFZ, last year. We had a group of 7 but PhilC put on a clinic. I think we caught 22 fish total but PhilC had at least 13 of them. We were all fishing the same exact water and pattern but a majority of the fish ended up on his line.

 

[mcneishm]

I have fished both the LFZ and DSR this year, multiple times. The LFZ can be really crowded. But, both times I was there, I arrived mid-afternoon. There were a fair number of fishermen but they cleared out by 3 or 3:30. I was near the wire at the top end and shared that run with another fisherman 'til to got dark. Did OK on salmon and steelhead tho it was earlier in October before there were a lot of steelies in the river.

I fished DSR 4 times this year for a total of 8 days. It was not terribly crowded any of those times but I always go during the week. The salmon run early was a bust (as opposed to last year when it was simply awesome). However the steelhead this year have been as awesome as the salmon were last. In the four days I fished the DSR in mid- and late October, the two guys I fish with and I hooked somewhere in the neighborhood of 125-150 fish and brought probably 40-50 to hand/net. Most of these were in the 6-10 # category but each of us hooked and landed several that were quite a bit larger. I had one that was 14#, a really beautiful fish. These fish are fresh out of the lake, bright, and full of vim and vinegar. All were caught on an assortment of flies drifted on the bottom: BIG dark stoneflies, olive and black buggers, BIG (like size 6) BHPTs some with a bright green thorax and/or green bead, and small blue and green estaz eggs. (Now and again I'll pick one up on the swing at the end of a drift.)

I typically fish a tapered leader, maybe 9' down to 1x or so. Then a small swivel and tie a 2-3 ft. tippet to that, maybe 1, 2, or 3x depending on the water. I tie a small, say, 1.5", piece of heavy mono to the swivel to which I attach any split shot I'm going to use. My flies are generally weighted too. As others have said, there's no real beauty to any of this. The idea is to get the flies down to the fish and get a good drift into the holding water. I've found this to be between a heavy riffle at the head of a pool and the really flat water immediately below. Find the seams and edges. Not sure if this translates into the "transition" water seen in the various reports from Fat Nancy's, Whitakers, or DSR, but it's where I've hooked/caught probably 95% of my fish.

I'd love to go up this month but it's not looking favorable. Good luck when you do go.

 

[wgmiller]

I went to the SR ONE time and did not fish the DSR when I was there. If I were to go back some day, beyond a doubt, I would pay to fish the DSR at least one day. IMO, being able get on "fresh" fish and not having to deal with the circus would be well worth it.

Good luck and I hope you get on 'em!!!

 

[SBecker]

A pretty good friend of mine used to be a very well known guide up on the SR. Before I went up this year he pounded it in my head that you really only need one fly up there in 3 colors. A sucker spawn tied on a size 6 egg hook. A full strand of egg yarn in orange, cheese, and blue. I tend to trust him.

I hooked a lot of steelhead that weekend. I also lost a lot. While we were texting back and forth during the day to see how things were and told him I was losing lots of fish he asked my tippet size. I was using 4x floro. He then proceeded to lecture me and tell me the smallest ever you have to go is 3x nylon and not to listen to others that said I might have to go down to 5x or 4x. He swore to me if the fish are feeding they don't care what you are using, but 3x will allow you to really handle the fish.

Everybody has their opinions on everything, but I trust a guy that has logged countless hours up there. Just my two cents.

 

[krayfish2]

If you plan on fishing dsr, here's the drill..... Have rods rigged, gear in vest / backpack ready to go. Get up at least an 90 minutes before sunrise, quick breakfast and get dressed including waders. Park on shoulder in front of dsr entrance before they open. Once open, pull in, pay, grab gear and run down the stairs. Hit river and scurry for a prime pool before the main crowd rolls in. Be careful when crossing (especially in low light) as the bottom of that river eats ankles for a living.

Have food / drinks in your pack and dry clothes in car....just in case. A big net isn't required but is very handy to shorten the fight. Have a camera along as well. It's not what I'd consider real fly fishing but it can be fun. One hook up and you'll need a whole pack of wet naps to wipe the smile off your face.

 

[geebee]

Thanks for the tips guys.

Saturday i plan to arrive at the DSR around 9 ish, to suss the place out in the light, and then the next morning fish from oh dark zero.

the DSR itself says big flies have been working on the swing, so i'll be swinging blue n black alaskabous, popsicles, intruders at first then bobber fishing if i have no luck.

conditions are looking good right now, and there's fish there so hopefully over the three days i might stick a fish or two.

cheers

Mark.

 

[mcwillja]

SBecker wrote:
He then proceeded to lecture me and tell me the smallest ever you have to go is 3x nylon and not to listen to others that said I might have to go down to 5x or 4x. He swore to me if the fish are feeding they don't care what you are using, but 3x will allow you to really handle the fish.

Everybody has their opinions on everything, but I trust a guy that has logged countless hours up there. Just my two cents.

I know you are talking about a guide and I totally agree with the 3X because that is all I use up there as well but I strongly encourage fluoro on the river. The rocks eat the nylon and I have lost fish due to abrasion on my tippet before switching to fluoro exclusively. I will never go back to nylon for my tippet section.

 

[krayfish2]

Mark,

The guide Becker mentions catches fish almost every day waking flies and swinging flies. If you go to Bing maps and you can get an idea of where you might want to go.

 

[moon1284]

SBecker is dead on.

 

[SBecker]

krayfish2 wrote:
Mark,

The guide Becker mentions catches fish almost every day waking flies and swinging flies.

He hardly fishes up there anymore. I guess you get bored after a while throwing a thingamabobber and egg patterns, so you begin to experiment and force feed fish on top. Wis I could say I took a Coho, King, Atlantic, and steelhead on waking flies. I just don't have the patience after driving 3 hours.

 

[geebee]

krayfish2 wrote:
Mark,

The guide Becker mentions catches fish almost every day waking flies and swinging flies. If you go to Bing maps and you can get an idea of where you might want to go.

oh i do ;-)

i've been up and down the DSR frame by frame on the 45 degree aerial.

i'll give it my best shot.