Salmon and Steelhead 2017

Just out of couriousty what are some of your best colors and sizes for beads. Been steelheading for years now with limited success with beads. I know guys swear by them but I always do better with glo bugs. Glo roe has been my go to bead for sure.
 
Oddly enough, the most successful fly pattern I've used on the Salmon River for king and coho salmon, and to a lesser extent for steelhead, is the Montana Stone from Charles Brooks "Nymph Fishing for Larger Trout" tied on a size 6 or 8 hook. The Salmon River is crawling with big Pteronarcys stone flies. Whether or not that provides the salmon an urge to take them is another question. What I do know is they work and work well. I tie them heavily weighted and with a 3/16" black bead head.

I was at the Salmon River for 2 and a half days fishing this week at DSR. There were a few fish in the river. My friend and I each brought one king to hand. I hooked 5; he hooked 4. Both the fish we landed and most of the ones we hooked were on the Montana Stone. There were rumors of a few cohos here and there and claims to have caught them. I saw neither coho nor anyone claiming to have caught one. There is a white water release this weekend. That may well bring quite a few more fish into the river.
 
The 50% wild king number is somewhat misleading. 70% of kings in SR are wild, but SR has 70% of Lake Ontario's kings. Therefore, wild kings are common in SR, but are rare at the smaller tribs.

SR is a big river with miles of areas with good spawning gravel. All it needs is a wet summer to produce plenty of wild fish. That can't be said about most of the other Lake O or Lake Erie tribs. A few years back the power plant was required to have minimum flows in the summer (used to shut off when power wasn't needed) and that made all the difference. Of course, the weather still causes good and bad spawning years.
 
Where do you get numbers of 70% of kings in SR are wild and 70% of LO kings go to Salmon River?

Not saying you're wrong but I'd like to see that data.
 
Moon1284 wrote;

None of the fish that run are supposed to be there and there is very little natural reproduction

At least 25% of the steelhead that enter the Cattaraugus are wild fish. The Cat is significantly less crowded than the Salmon River and you meet many nice people.
 
My friend "Moose" and I chased around trying to get to various sections of The Catt. Crazy, one road was a steep switchback that got to a great section. I doubt that I could find it again. Nice water with no one fishing there. GG
 
gulfgray wrote;

one road was a steep switchback that got to a great section

It sounds like you were either above Gowanda in the Zoar Valley area or downstream in the reservation. Do you remember if you crossed a long bridge?

I found half a dozen access points just by driving around and seeing if there were any guys parked and fishing.
 
WE were above Gowanda. Moose used to teach there in Gowanda back in the 60's. The creek was so polluted it stunk. Probably was the Zoar Valley. The Catt gets blown out rather easily and we tried to fish it for a number of yeares before we got it at fish able levels. GG
 
Gulfgray,

FYI the NYS USGS gage for the Cat has a turbidity gage as well as the gage height and cfs graph. We met some guys who told us that as long as the turbidity is between 0 and 15 you can have good fly fishing. Higher than a turbidity of 15 and the water is so stained it is hard for the steelhead to see the flies.

You can buy the reservation permit ($15.00 for seniors) at the convenient store at the circle on Route 5 just after crossing the bridge. Gas is cheaper at reservation service stations.
 
The Catt does has wild steelhead. There is an LO trib near rochester that also has some natural reproduction. IMO, the key to natural reproduction of lake run fish is removing dams. There are Lake Trout that naturally reproduce in the Niagara River and Lake Ontario. There supposedly isn't any natural reproduction of steelhead, salmon, and brown trout in the Niagara River, but I have a hard time believing that. I believe there is a small population of resident brown trout and lake trout in a certain area of the Niagara - I have caught those fish 12 months a year in the Niagara River, but very few in July and early August. If they remove Scoby Dam on the Catt or at least create a fish passage as planned, this will make the river that much better. I fish both the upper and lower catt system quite a bit.

The salmon river isn't really that far from the lake to the dam (about 13 miles) but there are some tribs that provide good habitat for spawning, so I'm sure there are some wild fish there but SR fish get absolutely slaughtered, and personally I have no interest in fishing for black steelhead in 20 degree temps, especially when even on the coldest days you have to sit in the dark for an hour to get a prime spot. If I were to fish the salmon river, it would be between now and Oct 1, and it would have to be on a tues or weds, and I wouldn't make a long drive, the crowds just drive me nuts. I'm a firm believer that the best time to fish the GL tribs is in early fall when the fish are beginning to run. It's a crap shoot but I'd much rather fish for silver fish than black ones.

As far as pollution, I'm sure the catt has had pollution, but it always stunk. The indian name Cattaraugus is derived from means "foul smelling river bank" the sulphur smell is from natural gas that oozes from the mud. GG you are probably talking about the Zoar valley area.
 
A good start for research on LO fisheries is the NYS DEC reports:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/27068.html

The fin clipping was done from 2008 through 2011, so the wild chinook work is mostly described in the 2012 report. Section 3 is the results of the fin clipping experiment and section 8 is the seine samples or parr in the river. The 2016 report claimed a good amount of wild fish in the seine study.

Another source is Cornell U where the NYS fisheries school is. Their websites keep changing, b
 
Jeff-

Thanks for the links. I was never clear whether or not they clipped the fins on fish from the SR Hatchery at beaverdam brook that come from "wild broodstock". It's not totally clear, but it looks like they did. It looks like I made some erroneous statements and I stand corrected.
 
The only fish fin clipped are the fingerlings raised at the hatchery. Of course some of the parents (or broodstock) could be wild fish, but the fingerlings were raised at the hatchery. I'm assuming that the SR hatchery likes to mix wild and hatchery broodstock for better genetics. They do that at other hatcheries.

For example, the rainbow fingerlings for the Finger Lakes are raised at the Bath hatchery. They net wild fish on their spring spawning run into Naples Ck (it is a big local event) and raise both wild parent fish and wild X hatchery fish. They do something similar with landlocks in Clear Lake. However, Clear Lake is so small that NYS has to bring Maine landlocked salmon broodstock every so often to improve the gene pool.

 
Got ya. Clear now. Thanks.
 
For those who fish the sr, it looks like now is the time to be there...
 
I may be heading to Erie tomorrow afternoon. If I do, I will turn it into a scouting trip. If I do, I will post about it next week.

I'm betting with this colder weather that some early runners are already in. Years back, I spotted a few steelhead a couple mile upstream (on Elk) ... in late August. Warm day and water was very low, so they were stressed. Fished if in early September upstream from there (after rain brought up the stream level a little) and caught a couple.

We had a cold late summer that year as well.

PA fall runs generally are generally better and start earlier than they do in Oh.
 
The salmon river seems to be screaming with fish now...

http://www.douglastonsalmonrun.com/Fishing-Report.aspx
 
wbranch wrote:


At least 25% of the steelhead that enter the Cattaraugus are wild fish.

The latest studies actually show that less than 5% returning steelhead are wild to Cattaraugus.
Cattaraugus steelhead return surveys the past two years showed that the majority of the returning fish are PA and Ohio stock while only 18% were NY fish.
That stream and its tributaries produce a good amount of wild fish but the mortality rate of yearling is abnormally high.
 
Dano-

I saw that study as well. Tough to say what is going on at the Catt. One thing that is for sure is there are tons of wild rainbows throughout the entire watershed above the dam.
 
Moon, It's not just the Catt that is suffering. All of the NY Lk Erie Tribs have seen dramatic declines in returning adult fish.
Hopefully they can at least get an understanding of what's going on with this current fin clipping / smolt monitoring experiment currently going on at Chautauqua Creek.
 
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