Rank these by importance

[FarmerDave]

Someone mentioned using 4x for everything. 4 x to a size 20 is hard for me to imagine? I could not even get line through hook.

And I agree perserverence is often the ticket. And improvising and even getting lucky when the wind suddenly blows in your favor.
Heavily pressured fish get used to seeing anglers come from a certain direction so stalking in below and casting carefully can work at times.

I get better at mending and casting when I am out for long hours on multiple days in a row. The rod starts to really feel like a part of me.

I probably use 4X the most, but not exclusively. I rarely use tippet smaller than 5X, but then I rarely use flies smaller than size 16. Once in awhile I will use a size 18 fly and will drop down to 6X tippet. I'd need cheater glasses just to see the eye on a size 20 or smaller, let alone put a line through it. I never got into midge fishing. Oh sure, it's effective certain times of the year, but not for me.

 

[afishinado]

Agree, to actually be classified as a "great caster" (not just a distance caster) one has to have mastered aerial mends and incorporate them their casting/fishing. Some of the truly great casters I know rarely need mend on the water to present their fly; but when needed they can also masterly mend their line on the water.

A well presented fly wins out over a certain fly pattern or a micro tippet just about any time.....

 

[joebamboo]

Casting
Mending
Fly

that's my choice and I'm sticking with it!!!

 

[pcray1231]

Lets use hunting as an analogy where being a great target shooter does not make one a great hunter. Sure, a great shooter is impressive, and can make you money on a Saturday at the range. But that alone doesn't put meat on the table without other skills and knowledge, or a lots of luck. I'd rather be an average shot and a great hunter, than the other way around. But fortunately, I am good at both.

Take that one step further. There's a difference between being a great target shooter, and a great shooter, even taking great "hunter" out of the equation.

I see guys, I'm one of them, trying to get 1/2 MOA off a bench. Load their own shells to exacting tolerances, picking match bullets, etc. Figuring out which rifle likes which loads. Sit on a bench, with carefully placed rests, controlling their breathing, squeezing the trigger just so, having hair triggers on the guns, adjusts the scope if the group is 1/2 inch to the right, on longer shooting dial in distances on their scope. All that. Putting a 5 shot group through one ragged hole at 100 yards. It's a sport in it's own right. And guy #2 beside him throws 1 random shell in the gun, hits within 4" of the bull, calls it good and leaves.

In the woods, guy #1 is scoping a buck to count points, ranging it with his rangefinder and readying his shooting stick, by the time he's ready to shoot the buck is looong gone. Deer runs off to guy #2, now at a full run at 200 yards, he shoulders the gun and shoots offhand a split second after the gun hits his shoulder, and a deer falls dead. Who's the better shooter?

I grew up a rabbit hunter with beagles, reaction shooting with double barrels. I recall times shooting, and then not even remembering seeing a rabbit, and being openly worried about why the hell I just did that, why did I shoot? But then you walk up and there's a dead rabbit. We hunted with a guy who used a worn out single shot, he carried an extra shell in his left hand and would get a second shot off quicker than some of us with the side by sides. I've seen my dad hunt deer with a lever action, open sights, I'm trying to find it in the scope looking for horns and he downs it in it's tracks at 250 yards running full speed, and your jaw just drops. After bragging about your 1/2 MOA group, you feel kinda silly, just got showed up by pops who was happy to hit the paper, and he'll smile and say something like "didn't all that reaction shooting teach you anything?"

There's a difference between a good target shooter and being a good shot. There's a difference between being a good competition caster and being a good caster on the water.

 

[redietz]

* Fly
* Cast
* Tippet size
* Mending

For me, I'd rank in this order:

#1- Mending. To me, this determines if your fly gets eaten or ignored. Good mending can save a bad cast.

#2- Fly. You have to be relatively close to the size or color of the naturals. As I've said many times on here, I fish one pattern for most mayfly and caddis hatches all spring. Yes, same pattern for Quill Gordon, Blue Quill, Hendrickson, Tan & Grannom Caddis as well as March Brown & Grey Fox. Tandem rig with one oversized and one undersized.

#3- Cast. You can be below average caster and a great mender. I've had TimmyT from the forum out and proved that you can catch a fish at 60' by casting 20' and mending the bejesus out of it.

#4- Tippet. On rare occasions with very small flies or ridiculous currents, you have to size down. A good slack cast and excellent mending can overcome most of that stuff. 80% of my dry fly fishing is done on 4x.

Curious to see how some of you rank these.

I pretty much agree, although all the mending in the world won't help to float a beadhead if the fish are feeding on top. Other than that, your list is the same as mine, and for the same reasons.

 

[krayfish2]

FD,
"being able to hit a paper plate at 70 feet does not make one a great angler" <-- did not say it makes them a good angler but it surely makes them a good caster. Can't do it without proper mechanics, proper technique and good timing. Fishing from a moving boat does usually require constant line corrections. Sometimes you're anchored up casting 45' to a fish that's sipping on the bank and suddenly a much bigger fish posts up towards the tail out. The water's flat, pulling anchor will spook him so you throw a cast 30 ft above his feeding lane, pull slack into the line and feed it until backing is out the guides. The amount of times they'll eat it is surprising even though it's not as perfect as perfect can be. If you've never fished out of a drift boat, load up the dog and get over here. I'll take you but you got to bring the Brit 😁.

 

[krayfish2]

Someone mentioned using 4x for everything. 4 x to a size 20 is hard for me to imagine? I could not even get line through hook.

That would be me 😁. I think you'll agree that fish on the Delaware system are heavily pressured and become very selective. Most of my dry fly stuff will be on 3-4x until after the drake's. Occasionally I have to go 5x on an olive or smaller caddis in late spring.

You can still catch plenty on heavier tippet. The higher spring flows combined with fish that are "feeling it" due to temperature/food supply .... heavy tippet reduces break offs and allows you to put the heat on the fish and land them quickly. I fight them so hard, I don't understand how I haven't broken a dozen rods in the last 20 years. Once I hook up, I feel my options are to get that fish in the net in under a minute or break them off. Photo attached of cranking on a fish trying to net for the 3rd or 4th time

 

[Tigereye]

In most cases, dry and nymph fishing drag kills. The 2 things that contribute most to that are mending ( or lack there of) and tippet size. Therefore:

#1 mending
#2 tippet

As for clinching the deal fly matters not so much to exact copy but correect size and shape. Presented properly ( see mending and tippet) one should get a response whether hunger, aggression, or conditioned.

#3 fly

Lastly cast. Just because that's what's left.

#4 cast

 

[FarmerDave]

Take that one step further. There's a difference between being a great target shooter, and a great shooter, even taking great "hunter" out of the equation.

I see guys, I'm one of them, trying to get 1/2 MOA off a bench. Load their own shells to exacting tolerances, picking match bullets, etc. Figuring out which rifle likes which loads. Sit on a bench, with carefully placed rests, controlling their breathing, squeezing the trigger just so, having hair triggers on the guns, adjusts the scope if the group is 1/2 inch to the right, on longer shooting dial in distances on their scope. All that. Putting a 5 shot group through one ragged hole at 100 yards. It's a sport in it's own right. And guy #2 beside him throws 1 random shell in the gun, hits within 4" of the bull, calls it good and leaves.

In the woods, guy #1 is scoping a buck to count points, ranging it with his rangefinder and readying his shooting stick, by the time he's ready to shoot the buck is looong gone. Deer runs off to guy #2, now at a full run at 200 yards, he shoulders the gun and shoots offhand a split second after the gun hits his shoulder, and a deer falls dead. Who's the better shooter?

I grew up a rabbit hunter with beagles, reaction shooting with double barrels. I recall times shooting, and then not even remembering seeing a rabbit, and being openly worried about why the hell I just did that, why did I shoot? But then you walk up and there's a dead rabbit. We hunted with a guy who used a worn out single shot, he carried an extra shell in his left hand and would get a second shot off quicker than some of us with the side by sides. I've seen my dad hunt deer with a lever action, open sights, I'm trying to find it in the scope looking for horns and he downs it in it's tracks at 250 yards running full speed, and your jaw just drops. After bragging about your 1/2 MOA group, you feel kinda silly, just got showed up by pops who was happy to hit the paper, and he'll smile and say something like "didn't all that reaction shooting teach you anything?"

There's a difference between a good target shooter and being a good shot. There's a difference between being a good competition caster and being a good caster on the water.

That is pretty much what I meant, but I used less words.

I also had a friend with a worn-out single shot who did that.

Sounds like your dad and my dad had a lot in common. My dad used a 35 Rem pump with open sights for deer. He was deadly with that old brush buster. First buck I ever shot was with a 32 Winchester special open sights, that I barrowed from a neighbor. Also barrowed a single shot 20 from him for small game and I couldn't hit anything with it.

 

[FarmerDave]

I just see line control as a lost art.

I'll buy that. But I've also seen people doing what I think they thought was mending, but it wasn't affecting the actual drift at all. They are usually decked out in the latest fashion and gadgets, so I just assume they learned it from a video or a guide.

That kind of inspired me to say that mending is often overrated.

 

[wildtrout2]

Sounds like your dad and my dad had a lot in common.

I hope that doesn't include shooting at a deer running full speed at 250yrds.

 

[FarmerDave]

FD,
... If you've never fished out of a drift boat, load up the dog and get over here. I'll take you but you got to bring the Brit 😁.

I appreciate the offer, but... Maybe if my Brit was 10 years younger.

You would have loved my previous Brit. He was a real jerk.

 

[Swattie87]

This list starts at least #4 for me, behind the following:

1. Conditions
2. Conditions
3. Conditions

I’ll take the rookie on his first time out in primo Summer, up and off color water, to out catch a pro fishing midges in low/clear/cold Winter conditions.

I’m not good at anything technical skill/casting/mending FFing wise. Other than identifying what/where the best conditions for a given time likely are.

In the right conditions you can be a crappy/sloppy caster and mender (like me) and fish silly big attractor flies (like I do) and still catch that down and across fish that would be all but impossible in low/clear water.

 

[FarmerDave]

I hope that doesn't include shooting at a deer running full speed at 250yrds.

I agree that most people shouldn't try that. One needs to know their limitations.

If I told you I made that shot, most wouldn't believe me. I was always a good shot at moving targets as long as it wasn't flying.

The part of Pats response I didn't necessarily agree with was the reaction shot. I always knew what I was shooting at and usually knew if I hit it, and where. But I think I knew what he meant.

 

[krayfish2]

This list starts at least #4 for me, behind the following:

1. Conditions
2. Conditions
3. Conditions

I’ll take the rookie on his first time out in primo Summer, up and off color water, to out catch a pro fishing midges in low/clear/cold Winter conditions.

I’m not good at anything technical skill/casting/mending FFing wise. Other than identifying what/where the best conditions for a given time likely are.

In the right conditions you can be a crappy/sloppy caster and mender (like me) and fish silly big attractor flies (like I do) and still catch that down and across fish that would be all but impossible in low/clear water.

If you understand where they live and where your cast should be going, you are ahead of many anglers.... which is why you do so well. That knowledge can make up for any casting deficiencies for sure. As we all know, trout don't wear hats or have sunglasses so a little cloud cover or stain is typically your best friend. I have seen a catfish wearing sunglasses but that's a totally different thread.

 

[wildtrout2]

This list starts at least #4 for me, behind the following:

1. Conditions
2. Conditions
3. Conditions

I’ll take the rookie on his first time out in primo Summer, up and off color water, to out catch a pro fishing midges in low/clear/cold Winter conditions.

I’m not good at anything technical skill/casting/mending FFing wise. Other than identifying what/where the best conditions for a given time likely are.

In the right conditions you can be a crappy/sloppy caster and mender (like me) and fish silly big attractor flies (like I do) and still catch that down and across fish that would be all but impossible in low/clear water.

Totally agree. Conditions usually dictate the importance of any of the original four options.

 

[pcray1231]

I hope that doesn't include shooting at a deer running full speed at 250yrds.

What's wrong with that? Big open woods where you can see 500 yards, long distance shooting is common, and they're often moving. Or in fields.

I personally struggle to hit at a full run, my best shot is to hope it stops or slows to a walk, but lots of guys can do it and I've seen em do it.

Heck, out west shooting deer at 500 yards isn't uncommon, though typically you're setting up on a rest and compensating for distance at that. Usually picking calibers, loads, sighting in at 200, so that up to 275 or so you just aim chest and don't have to compensate. Beyond that you need to know your scope and calculate bullet drop. Some guys carry a ballistics cue card, some just know MOA marks in the scope, and some have dial dealies. We do full ballistics on our rifles and loads, though. Finding a range at >200 yards is difficult in eastern PA, but when I visit my brother in western PA his range goes to 700, so I do that there. Zeroing at 200, I'm within about an inch from 0-250. So I only have to worry about it if it's a really far shot. But in those cases I have the Leupold cds-zl thing made for my load.

On my way back from camp, between state college and lewistown, there's always a group that sits up on the cut out cliff of 322, shooting OVER 322 at the mountainside across. They have tables and lead sleds up there, gotta be shooting 1000 yards. I shake my head every time.

 

[wildtrout2]

What's wrong with that? Big open woods where you can see 500 yards, long distance shooting is common...

Everything.

Long distance shooting at a deer is common. Long distance shooting at a running deer, not so much. Actually, it's frowned upon by most hunters.

 

[FarmerDave]

Everything.

Long distance shooting at a deer is common. Long distance shooting at a running deer, not so much. Actually, it's frowned upon by most hunters.

Yea, I frown on it too, as a general rule. Most people can't, but some can. I can think of a couple people who can, or at least could when they were younger, and one of them is not me.

I don't know if Pat could do it, but based on his superior knowledge of Physics, I probably wouldn't bet against it.

 

[McSneek]

I hope that doesn't include shooting at a deer running full speed at 250yrds.

Everything.

Long distance shooting at a deer is common. Long distance shooting at a running deer, not so much. Actually, it's frowned upon by most hunters.

Not a hunter but there is some really irresponsible comments in this thread about shooting deer at long distances. PA ain’t the Rocky Mountains. Good chance that 200+ yard shot you’re firing off is passing very close to someone.

As for the original question, depends on the stream/river. Having fished the West Branch and Main Stem a few times now I totally get what Kray is saying about the importance of mending and feeding line especially if you’re in a drift boat. Fish a typical PA stream including stretches of Penns and it comes down to dropping that fly a few feet in front of the feeding fish right in his lane. He’s going to eat long before you need to mend so a good accurate cast is important there.

I use 5x for most of my dry fly fishing these days. It works well enough that I don’t need to go lower.