Rank these by importance

[krayfish2]

* Fly
* Cast
* Tippet size
* Mending

For me, I'd rank in this order:

#1- Mending. To me, this determines if your fly gets eaten or ignored. Good mending can save a bad cast.

#2- Fly. You have to be relatively close to the size or color of the naturals. As I've said many times on here, I fish one pattern for most mayfly and caddis hatches all spring. Yes, same pattern for Quill Gordon, Blue Quill, Hendrickson, Tan & Grannom Caddis as well as March Brown & Grey Fox. Tandem rig with one oversized and one undersized.

#3- Cast. You can be below average caster and a great mender. I've had TimmyT from the forum out and proved that you can catch a fish at 60' by casting 20' and mending the bejesus out of it.

#4- Tippet. On rare occasions with very small flies or ridiculous currents, you have to size down. A good slack cast and excellent mending can overcome most of that stuff. 80% of my dry fly fishing is done on 4x.

Curious to see how some of you rank these.

 

[pcray1231]

1. Cast/mending - they are related to each other. Getting the fly where you want it, drifting how you want it. Multiple ways to skin that cat, a better caster can get away with worse mending, and a better mender can get away with worse casting.

2. Fly - Right general size and shape. Doesn't have to be an exact match though. Probably more important is characteristic, like for a dry how high it floats, for a nymph does it get down on bottom, for a streamer how does it move?

3. Tippet - I think fish don't really see line. I think they often are drag shy. Yeah, size, length of tippet can play into that, as does casting and mending. But they don't care if it's Rio or Umpqua, they don't care if it's fluoro or mono, and a good caster/mender can fish 4x and outfish the clueless guy using 7x too. The guy who understands tippet choice is about presentation rather than line visibility wins.

 

[krayfish2]

1. Cast/mending - they are related to each other. Getting the fly where you want it, drifting how you want it. Multiple ways to skin that cat, a better caster can get away with worse mending, and a better mender can get away with worse casting.

2. Fly - Right general size and shape. Doesn't have to be an exact match though. Probably more important is characteristic, like for a dry how high it floats, for a nymph does it get down on bottom, for a streamer how does it move?

3. Tippet - I think fish don't really see line. I think they often are drag shy. Yeah, size, length of tippet can play into that, as does casting and mending. But they don't care if it's Rio or Umpqua, they don't care if it's fluoro or mono, and a good caster/mender can fish 4x and outfish the clueless guy using 7x too. The guy who understands tippet choice is about presentation rather than line visibility wins.

Illegal. You can't have two #1

 

[JeffK]

1, Mending - agree, Need to get it there, but once in the neighborhood it is control of the fly that makes it happen
2. Cast - got to get it there accurately. Always need to get the fly to the fish.
3. Fly - trout will eat more flies than you imagine if presented well. Best fly in the world wouldn't catch a fish if isn't in front of one and doing what it is supposed to (noy always dead drift)
4. Tippet - I like larger tippets than most to be easy on the fish. Good presentation and loop knots help better than teeny tiny tippets IMHO

 

[salmo]

Dry flies:
1. Cast (accuracy is critical);
2. Mending;
3. Fly; then
4. Tippet.
Nymphs:
1. Mending;
2. Tippet;
3. Fly; then
4. Cast.

 

[FarmerDave]

IMO, Mending is overrated if you can cast. Sure mending is important to create or extend a drag free drift or make a correction to a bad cast, but I've seen people "mending" for the sake of mending, and they aren't even affecting the drift. Apparently someone taught them that this was required.

That said, I kind of agree with Pat that it is hard to separate mending from casting, but for the sake of following the rules as set forth by a fellow Brittany owner...

1. Casting
2. Mending, but only when it is needed. And BTW, roll casting is not mending, it's casting.
3. Fly
4. Tippet.

 

[krayfish2]

IMO, Mending is overrated if you can cast. Sure mending is important to create or extend a drag free drift or make a correction to a bad cast, but I've seen people "mending" for the sake of mending, and they aren't even affecting the drift. Apparently someone taught them that this was required.

That said, I kind of agree with Pat that it is hard to separate mending from casting, but for the sake of following the rules as set forth by a fellow Brittany owner...

1. Casting
2. Mending, but only when it is needed. And BTW, roll casting is not mending, it's casting.
3. Fly
4. Tippet.

I felt the same way until this spring. Guided a dude who was a FFF Certified Casting Instructor. He could hit a paper plate at 70' every time. He didn't put any slack in the leader and really didn't do much mending. Result was a dragging fly and little interest from the fish. The 2 anglers did manage 16-18 fish in 8+ hours. I went back with the dogs the following day and the boat wasn't in the water until 2:30pm. Put over 40 in the net by myself in 6 hours. Difference.... I'm a mending mofo 😁

 

[pcray1231]

Guided a dude who was a FFF Certified Casting Instructor. He could hit a paper plate at 70' every time. He didn't put any slack in the leader and really didn't do much mending. Result was a dragging fly and little interest from the fish.

That is not good casting. I've seen that a lot.

I think it was Humphreys who titled his presentation "casting to catch fish, not just to cast"?

I make no claims at being top notch at either, but it looks very, very different when I am lawn casting trying to get book correct form, and when I am on the water doing all kinds of off the wall stuff trying to get my fly to do what I want it to do. Half of it I make up on the spot.

#1 - KNOWING what you want your fly to do. Casting, mending, tippet, and even fly choice are mainly varables you can use to achieve it.

 

[FarmerDave]

Fair enough. I'm open to discussion on this, but as Pat said, and I agree, it is hard to separate mending from casting.

Let me ask you something. Lets say you are making a fairly long cast, and a a little extra rod action is needed as the fly is about to hit the water so that you can better position the leader to get less drag. Is that a mend, or part of the cast? If you say it is part of the cast, I stand by my order. If you say it is a mend, I'll say cast is 1a and mend is 1b.

 

[caddisflyer]

Casting and mending are sort of related but I would say mending would be my number one. You can actually stalk fairly close at times and even someone who is not an expert at casting can present a fly naturally by line control. This is exactly how I taught my grandson and he quickly got the idea.
As a young fisherman most of my dry fly fishing was all done working upstream. All on small creeks. When I could drive I started hitting Penns and much later Upper Delaware and some other Catskill and Pocono creeks. That's when I upped my game and learned to fish down and across and mending and casting and overall presentation improved.

Fly would be number two. Mostly match the hatch. And above all observe what fish are eating and what is on water.

Tippett is number 3. I fish Trouthunter Flourocarbon tippett all the time often 6 or 5 or 5.5 unless fishing something bigger that requires a heavier line. YES. Flourocarbon for dries.

Casting is number four for reasons stated above.

Of course all these things are interrelated and are what makes this sport endlessly fascinating.

 

[JeffP]

* Fly
* Cast
* Tippet size
* Mending

For me, I'd rank in this order:

#1- Mending. To me, this determines if your fly gets eaten or ignored. Good mending can save a bad cast.

#2- Fly. You have to be relatively close to the size or color of the naturals. As I've said many times on here, I fish one pattern for most mayfly and caddis hatches all spring. Yes, same pattern for Quill Gordon, Blue Quill, Hendrickson, Tan & Grannom Caddis as well as March Brown & Grey Fox. Tandem rig with one oversized and one undersized.

#3- Cast. You can be below average caster and a great mender. I've had TimmyT from the forum out and proved that you can catch a fish at 60' by casting 20' and mending the bejesus out of it.

#4- Tippet. On rare occasions with very small flies or ridiculous currents, you have to size down. A good slack cast and excellent mending can overcome most of that stuff. 80% of my dry fly fishing is done on 4x.

Curious to see how some of you rank these.

I just have never really gotten the knack of mending. I seem to compensate by being a pretty good caster and being willing to wade and hit different anchors. I need to work on it.

 

[JimNovo]

Agree with Salmo but with one change in the nymphing…

Dry flies:
1. Cast;
2. Mending;
3. Fly;
4. Tippet.
Nymphs:
1. Mending;
*2. Fly
*3. Tippet;
4. Cast.

 

[Fly-Swatter]

Illegal. You can't have two #1

Then how would you categorize an aerial mend (props to FD for suggesting this first)?

 

[krayfish2]

We'll agree to disagree Pat. Hitting the target at 70' almost every time is damn good casting. What he was doing was impressive but not constructive to catching fish.

To give an example of how I see casting and mending separate.....
You are standing out in the river up to your waist, you have some back cast room but not much. The far bank is only about 25 ft away but you have a fish feeding down the bubble line 50 ft below you. It's too deep for you to get any closer to that fish because the bottom drops away. You can throw a very accurate 25 ft cast tight to the far Bank but you will need to mend the pants off of it in order to feed it down into the feeding lane of the trout. In that scenario, you can be a great caster or a complete turd of a caster. Mend / feed is the difference in catching that fish or moving to a new location and possibly spooking the trophy.

I just see line control as a lost art.

 

[krayfish2]

Then how would you categorize an aerial mend (props to FD for suggesting this first)?

Irrelevant, stop muddying the water Mike 🤣🤣. Two or three more posts and I'm going to end up being on your side too 😁

 

[pcray1231]

We'll agree to disagree Pat. Hitting the target at 70' almost every time is damn good casting. What he was doing was impressive but not constructive to catching fish.

No, I disagree that we disagree, I think we actually agree. It's a matter of semantics.

Agree it's damn impressive, and hard to do, and takes lots of practice, etc. That does not make it "good". What is the goal? Is it to look really good casting, or is it to catch fish? If it's to catch fish, and what he was doing was not constructive to catching fish, then.....

Casting the book way, competitions, etc. is an entirely different ball game than how you cast to fish. That is not to say that somebody can't master both. There are lots that can do both, and they know when to do what. But the best fishermen I know, when actually fishing and trying to catch fish, look really really stupid casting. Whether they are great casters on a lawn or not, they don't LOOK very good when actually fishing, unless you look close. Super soft slack line cast. Aerial mends. Sidearm to get under a bush. Tuck cast. Downer and uppers. With obstructions behind, snap casts. Bow and arrow. Holding the fly in your hand as you start a roll cast. And it looks NOTHING like the "learn to cast" video said it should.

To where a non-fisherman would say "that guy don't know what the hell he's doing". Maybe, maybe not, but he knows what he's trying to do.... The guy laying out a perfect form, straightened leader cast does not.

 

[pcray1231]

To give an example of how I see casting and mending separate.....
You are standing out in the river up to your waist, you have some back cast room but not much. The far bank is only about 25 ft away but you have a fish feeding down the bubble line 50 ft below you. It's too deep for you to get any closer to that fish because the bottom drops away. You can throw a very accurate 25 ft cast tight to the far Bank but you will need to mend the pants off of it in order to feed it down into the feeding lane of the trout. In that scenario, you can be a great caster or a complete turd of a caster. Mend / feed is the difference in catching that fish or moving to a new location and possibly spooking the trophy.

I just see line control as a lost art.

Or you can throw a 60 foot cast down and across, shock it mid air, add an aerial mend before it lands, and land with a slack leader and fly line above the fly, getting a drag free drift into the feeding lane. If you can't do that at 60 feet, maybe you can do it at 40, which still reduces the amount of mend and feeds required vs your 25 ft cast. Casting can compensate for not being as good a mender, and mending can compensate for not being as good a caster. Lord knows I need every tool in the shed because I am ok at everything, great at nothing...

And perserverance can compensate for both. Maybe another guy crosses, circles around below the fish, and fishes up to it. I would probably practice multiple approaches at an imaginary fish 10 feet up before casting to the one fish. See if I can get a drift. A standerby would see no consistency in my form, and what looks like way too much movement, and I'm getting it nowhere near the fish! lol. If I figure out some combination of cast/mend that gives me the drift I want, I'd put it over the fish. If not, I'd choose between going around or looking or an easier fish. Depending how the day is going, lol. If things are hot, that one fish ain't so important, I'll find another quickly. If it's to break a skunk, I will construct a raft out of downed limbs before I give in.....

But yes, line control is a lost art to many. And the guy who doesn't catch that fish? Is the guy who thinks he's awesome. Confidently lays out a perfect textbook leader straightened cast right out of the FFF manual, and accurately lands it 4 inches above the fish, only to have drag set in immediately and put the fish down.

 

[caddisflyer]

Someone mentioned using 4x for everything. 4 x to a size 20 is hard for me to imagine? I could not even get line through hook.

And I agree perserverence is often the ticket. And improvising and even getting lucky when the wind suddenly blows in your favor.
Heavily pressured fish get used to seeing anglers come from a certain direction so stalking in below and casting carefully can work at times.

I get better at mending and casting when I am out for long hours on multiple days in a row. The rod starts to really feel like a part of me.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

1) Mending: (even if I mend in the air with a reach cast) It's all about the drift. I don't golf, but I like the saying, "Drive for show, and putt for dough."
2) Cast: However, whatever one needs to do to set up the drift.
3) Fly: What the fish are interested in and something I can actually see.
4) Tippet size: For proper turnover and big enough to not curly-cue when the fly-wings are not aerodynamically perfect.
5) False casting: Not on Kray's original list but it should be last on every list like this one.

Regards

 

[FarmerDave]

Kray, maybe I am looking at this wrong. Your long and accurate cast scenario has me thinking. But Pat is correct, being able to hit a paper plate at 70 feet does not make one a great angler, but can help. Great cast for a certified casting instructor. I may be certifiable, but not as an instructor of fishing or casting.

Lets use hunting as an analogy where being a great target shooter does not make one a great hunter. Sure, a great shooter is impressive, and can make you money on a Saturday at the range. But that alone doesn't put meat on the table without other skills and knowledge, or a lots of luck. I'd rather be an average shot and a great hunter, than the other way around. But fortunately, I am good at both.

BTW, I never tried casting out of a drift boat. That has to be more difficult, and I can see where mending could be more important when doing so.