PFBC Meeting

It make me sick to hear of early harvest periods and bait being able to be used. So much I may not purchase a trout permit this year and travel to the storied waters of NY to fish for trout this year.
IMHO the best way to protest is to not support the PAFC financially.
Hit them in their pocket book.
 
TimRobinsin wrote:

lastly,

The priority needs to be on improving these fisheries so that trout fishing opportunities can continue to increase. fewer people are buying licenses for trout fishing because:

To the average person trout fishing in PA is not special in most places.

why do you want to make it easier to get people into special reg areas? because fishing IS special in those areas.

so why not take the reverse approach elevate more areas to standards that are found in special reg areas. create more quality fishing opportunities using these areas as an example of what you can do? why not elevate the quality of fishing in a majority of areas instead of lowering the standard and the quality of the fishing experience in a few?

I have fished very few (if any) DHALO areas that end up being destinations for future return. The only "special" aspect that I see about DHALO is that access is restricted to those who choose to fish a certain way, and since most anglers are bait fishermen, creating more special areas that restrict access to bait fishermen will not get more people involved in angling. Perhaps another way of saying this is that your idea of special is what most anglers would look at as exclusionary. We are on the inside looking out; most anglers are on the outside looking in.

That being said, I find the PFBC press release to be a bit odd, in the sense that the stream miles potentially affected by this are a drop in the river bucket, compared to all the stream miles in PA. So tweaking a regulation like this is going to have minimal impact on youth angling, at the expense of the support of the minority of anglers who currently can fish these areas.

To me, if there is a need to regulate anything, there is a simple solution. The water is C&R, or it is not. Scrap all the tackle regulations and manage the waters for where fish can be kept and where fish can't be kept. You eliminate all this silly bickering among angling factions that way, you simplify regulations, and you have a concept that anglers can simply understand.

PFBC could have avoided a bit of embarrassment with Pine Creek by not designating additional stream mileage as DHALO, only to have it change a few short months later to All Tackle C&R. Just extend the mileage and move directly to All Tackle and admit it is pandering to the Brown Trout Club private stocking. I believe I remember a tactic admission (from a video), where PFBC acknowledged it is not a biological move (data supports that water temps get too high the majority of the summers), but a nod to social pressures. And that is the reality of politics for a resource agency - biology plays a role, but so do social pressures.

Regarding public comment periods, I take a jaded view on them (not just PFBC, but all government agencies). About the only thing the comment periods appear to be good for is providing a means for people to vent. I guess public officials can say they gave people a chance to voice their opinion, but I'm not certain that public opinion ends up weighing heavily on final decisions. The cynic in me sees it as a means to gauge whether the backlash is large enough to need to change anything; if not, you've somewhat quantified who you've pissed off and whether that group is disposable or not. If officials find they grossly underestimated backlash, they might tweak a proposal (apparently there must have been a firestorm on the SGL hiking ban to get that proposal deleted from the January 27 agenda). I still submit comments, but I'm under no delusion that they actually have any impact.
 
After these changes to the Delayed Harvest, Artificial Lures Only areas, I wonder what they will call them?

Neither term, Delayed Harvest, or Artificial Lures Only, will apply any more.

Harvest will be allowed beginning right on opening day, so no longer delayed. And when bait fishing is allowed, it's obviously not artificial lures only any more.

Do yinz have any recommendations for a good name? (Keep it clean!)

 
troutbert wrote:
After these changes to the Delayed Harvest, Artificial Lures Only areas, I wonder what they will call them?

Neither term, Delayed Harvest, or Artificial Lures Only, will apply any more.

Harvest will be allowed beginning right on opening day, so no longer delayed. And when bait fishing is allowed, it's obviously not artificial lures only any more.

Do yinz have any recommendations for a good name? (Keep it clean!)

I need to ponder this some more but "Enhanced Utilization Only" immediately comes to mind.
 
salmonoid wrote:

apparently there must have been a firestorm on the SGL hiking ban to get that proposal deleted from the January 27 agenda).

The hiker types believe in participatory democracy as envisioned by the founders. They don't just "complain to the Internet."

They contact the agency itself, and their legislators, and voice their views on issues.


 
Harvest will be allowed beginning right on opening day, so no longer delayed.

'bert, where did you see this? Unless they moved Opening Day to the week before Memorial Day, I don't think that's the case.
 
tomitrout wrote:
Harvest will be allowed beginning right on opening day, so no longer delayed.

'bert, where did you see this? Unless they moved Opening Day to the week before Memorial Day, I don't think that's the case.


I thought the regs allowed those under age 16 to harvest trout the whole time.

But maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe the youth will be allowed to fish bait, but still be required to fish C&R until utilization day arrives.



 
troutbert wrote:
tomitrout wrote:
Harvest will be allowed beginning right on opening day, so no longer delayed.

'bert, where did you see this? Unless they moved Opening Day to the week before Memorial Day, I don't think that's the case.


I thought the regs allowed those under age 16 to harvest trout the whole time.

But maybe I'm wrong about this. Maybe the youth will be allowed to fish bait, but still be required to fish C&R until utilization day arrives.

Yoots* can fish bait year-round, but no one can harvest until the week before Memorial Day.

* Youths, as pronounced by Joe Pesci. Or an urban slang version of utilizers.
 
I don't know what the vote was, but it looks like WBTE is probably dead on January 1, 2016, based on the precedence of past recommendations being agreed to.

Staff propose eliminating § 65.13 (relating to wild brook trout enhancement) in its entirety because based on peer reviewed and published scientific research on the waters within this program, staff have determined that this regulation is ineffective. If the program is eliminated, waters currently in the program will be distributed to other programs.
 
Salmonid - Ive never been in support of regs that exclude people just for exclusions sake. Im glad you are better informed about areas to fish than I was when I first started. That said, DHALO sections made it easy for my friend and me to find and access some quality fishing areas across the state. It is what changed my evaluation of fishing in the state when I saw that it wasnt packed full of people and there were actual feeding fish. I think spreading people out and making fishing more enjoyable would help the state involve more folks.

I like your idea about the c&r areas too. I think that would have the same effect and I think you could use that approach strategically to protect certain areas that hold wild fish.
 
dkile wrote:
Just released:

Commissioners Propose Delayed Harvest
Changes to Attract Youth Anglers

...

In addition, kids under the age of 16 would be allowed to use bait year-round in these areas.

...

Today’s proposal should encourage more anglers, especially kids, to fish these areas and will make it easier for families to fish together.”

Under today’s proposal, the harvest period would be moved to the Saturday before Memorial Day, the minimum size would be lowered to seven inches, and anglers could use bait or artificial lures during the harvest period. The creel limit would remain at three fish.

“Anglers are most interested in fishing for stocked trout in late May and early June,” added Arway.

...

Arway added that allowing kids to use bait year-round in DHALO areas makes sense because most children learn to fish with bait before advancing to fishing with flies or artificial lures.

“By allowing kids to use bait year-round in these areas, we would be making it easier for them to fish and would be increasing their chances of catching fish,” he said. “This would create a positive experience which in turn would increase their enthusiasm and passion for the sport.”

...

In other action, commissioners:
Added 10 stream sections to the list of Class A wild trout streams, and voted to continue stocking the stream sections, all of which receive high levels of angler use.

Ugh...where to even begin...

First, allowing kids to use bait year 'round is only going to fuel illegal bait use by 'adults'. If an adult sees a kid succeeding with bait while they're getting skunked on artificials, you can bet they'll try bait at some point too. We all know some guys will stop at nothing to fill a stringer.

It says they want to make it easier for families to fish together. Is it hard for them to fish together now?

If people lose interest in fishing for stocked trout in early June, why not end the Harvest period on July 5th (after the holiday). Maybe that will give a few more fish a chance at holding over.

The message all this seems to send is: fishing isn't fun unless you catch something every single time, and keep it even if its only 7". We'll fill our streams with uneducated, easy-to-catch trout for you (even the class A streams that already have plenty of fish). We (along with most of our society these days) support instant gratification and success for our kids with minimal effort on their part. And a license doesn't just allow you to fish - it's like a coupon that entitles you to a certain number of fish that we provide for you.

How will our kids ever learn to respect and appreciate nature and wildlife if that's what they're being taught?

Maybe the game commission should start raising tame fawns that don't fear people and releasing them for our kids to shoot too.
 
I'm now thinking this has the potential to be a huge revenue generator for the PFBC. I think they should sell corporate sponsorships to these stream sections.

"Berkley Power Bait Enhanced Utilization Zone!"

"Put and Take Zone" brought to you by Chevy Trucks and International Harvester.

Sheetz could even get in on it by selling nightcrawlerz, minnowz and mealwormz in a special PFBC styrofoam container.
 
streamerguy wrote:
Where is section K available to read? I didn't see it in the minutes.

Here you go -

http://www.fishandboat.com/images/exec/minutes/2015minu/01agd.pdf
 
As of January 5, 2015, the Commission received a total of 272 public comments. Five comments support stocking the 10 waters. Two comments support stocking all Class A waters, two comments specifically support stocking Pohopoco Creek and one comment specifically supports stocking Yellow Creek. 144 comments oppose stocking any Class A waters, and 118 comments urge the Commission to adopt defined criteria in its statement of policy if any stocking of Class A waters is to occur. Copies of all public comments have been provided to the Commissioners.


This still blows my mind.
 
troutbert wrote:

The hiker types believe in participatory democracy as envisioned by the founders. They don't just "complain to the Internet."

They contact the agency itself, and their legislators, and voice their views on issues.

Yep. That's it. A dream world where the little people have a voice, and the ecosystem is managed by science, and the majority vote is actually the winner.

Our voices were heard so loud and clear on the public comment mention in section K of the minutes I linked above. (254 total comments: 144 totally against any stocking on class A's, 118 wanting more defined criteria on what Class A's could be stocked).
You can read the results.

Edit: Tree'd by Becker.
 
I mean seriously? Why even have us comment? You obviously do not care what we have to say. 5 people....5.....

Man I bet if we got 1 more comment we would have persuaded them.
 
BrookieChaser wrote:
troutbert wrote:

The hiker types believe in participatory democracy as envisioned by the founders. They don't just "complain to the Internet."

They contact the agency itself, and their legislators, and voice their views on issues.

Yep. That's it. A dream world where the little people have a voice

What's your version of what happened?

Why did the PGC drop their proposal, if it wasn't in response to the hiker groups and other concerned citizens voicing their opinion?










 
McSneek wrote:


Sheetz could even get in on it by selling nightcrawlerz, minnowz and mealwormz in a special PFBC styrofoam container.

Push the button get the Baizzz
 
SBecker wrote:
As of January 5, 2015, the Commission received a total of 272 public comments. Five comments support stocking the 10 waters. Two comments support stocking all Class A waters, two comments specifically support stocking Pohopoco Creek and one comment specifically supports stocking Yellow Creek. 144 comments oppose stocking any Class A waters, and 118 comments urge the Commission to adopt defined criteria in its statement of policy if any stocking of Class A waters is to occur. Copies of all public comments have been provided to the Commissioners.


This still blows my mind.

This is why they passed the law stating that King John can Stock any Class A with approval from the Commissioners.
 
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