PFBC info on trout stream closures due to high temps

[afishinado]

Some great info in the article linked below. I really can't find anything in the article / policy that doesn't make sense.

It's really up to us to use our judgement as sportsmen as to when and where to fish for trout.

http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/info_sheets/trout_congregate.pdf

Hopefully this danged weather will let up and all the above will be in the rear view mirror. Oh, but with fall comes the spawn and many other shouldwefish posts. Again, check the second sentence above ^.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Montana anglers must have an iq 50 points higher than pa anglers. In fact the whole state must be more smart than ours, as shown through how they can predict climatic events.(such as its hot outside with drought conditions).

 

[krayfish2]

Why can't the PFBC simply say "Streams X, Y and Z are closed to all angling from June 30 - August 30" ?? Violators get heavy fine and loss of license for 3 years. Send a message. And yes Tom, I'm on board with closing known spawning sections as ripping fish off of redds is bush league.

Since the PFBC enjoys the hype associated with opening day, Why can't they hold 2 trout openers? Start stocking March 1 and the season opens March 1. The fish are being put in to be harvested, let them catch them fresh from the bucket. That trout season then closes June 30.... except for a list of waters that are cold enough to support trout angling 365 days a year. You then run your next opening day on September 30 and start dumping them out of the buckets again. That season can close on January 15.

There can be a list of streams that stay open to fishing year round. Some of those can permit harvest while others might be C & R. Wild trout streams can be on the year round list but close fishing within 100' of spawning tribs and / or close complete spawn sections so the fish can reproduce unmolested.

I think NY (and other states) do a much better job of managing wild fish, protecting wild fish and still taking care of the angler interested in harvest.

 

[SteveG]

That article says it'd be tough for law enforcement to enforce a stream closure... exactly how is that hard to do? It's easier than trying to enforce a stream that has multiple sets of regs along its length.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

I laugh because it's amazing how Susquehanna River anglers have been able to follow the regs. Closed spawn season from this time to that time (no targeting bass) and C&R from this point to this point year round. So hard. Sooooo hard yet they do it.

 

[Swattie87]

krayfish2 wrote:
bush league

Busch League

 

[krayfish2]

Sir, I Googled it and the suggestion was "bush" and not "Busch". I also thought Busch was the proper one but all knowing Google told me otherwise.

Exactly Sal. Guides complained but 99% of bass anglers followed the closure rules for the spawning season. Why? Because they've seen the river decline and want the fishery to return to prior status.

I'm 100% sure that if you sat on the thermal refuge section of the Beaverkill that is closed, you will not see an angler. I'm also sure that once the sections on the Upper Delaware close for spawning, you will not find an angler in the posted waters

 

[mikesl]

Yikes, that was far more of a "it cannot be done" than I expected.
That lacks creativity and problem-solving initiative.

I think that you could ID about 20 small areas around trib mouths throughout the state that get marked off limits during july and august.


now, if the PFBC isn't into the law enforcement and regulatory approach, my observations about the angling population leads me to think we could get significant benefit out of education... the number of anglers I have run into that cannot ID a wild brown/ don;t even know there is such a thing, is baffling. The optimist in me says that if everyone understood the difference between wild trout seeking refuge that WILL hold over (Penns, Lehigh) vs those in an ATW that are "put there for taking and not going to survive anyway" that would be somewhat helpful.

Maybe just a few educational signs by TU.

 

[Swattie87]

krayfish2 wrote:
Sir, I Googled it and the suggestion was "bush" and not "Busch". I also thought Busch was the proper one but all knowing Google told me otherwise.

Haha...Google knows all.

Its actual origins are from Sportscenter...Kenny Mayne I believe. Referencing Nascar's AAA level national touring series. Currently the "Nationwide" series, but formerly sponsored by AB and known then as the "Busch Grand National Series."

 

[Fly-Swatter]

I guess that was a joke (the Sports Center reference) but...

"mean, petty, unprofessional," 1906, from baseball slang for the small-town baseball clubs below the minor league where talent was developed (by 1903), from bush (n.) in the slang sense of "rural, provincial," which originally was not a value judgment.

 

[Shaner]

"That article says it'd be tough for law enforcement to enforce a stream closure"

Even if its tough to enforce/or not enforced at all - less people would fish it then having it open like now. Even if hard to enforce the word of one person getting fined travels around quick.

 

[krayfish2]

Is it more cost effective to raise hatchery fish or patrol existing resources?

 

[pro4mance]

Great question K2. Standard Govt. response. " Well the hatchery fish don't contribute to the Pension Fund , patrolling would not lead to Financial Flexibility. "

 

[SteveG]

If they actually cited people when they patrol, they'd be fiscally fit. I don't fish it because it's corny, but even one wco could make their pension fund solvent if they actually cited violators at The Run in Boiling Springs.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

I am a PA resident, but I have spent the past 16 summers in MT. I am located on the banks of the Yellowstone River in Paradise Valley, 35 miles north of Yellowstone National Park, and I fish many, if not most, of the better known rivers in this part of the world, including ones in Wyoming and Idaho, in addition to MT.

Over my years of being here, I have gained much respect for Montana's Fish, Wildlife and Park's organization in taking a proactive stance to protect and enhance the state's fisheries, and other natural resources, not just for those of us who are here today, but to ensure they will be here for future generations as well.

After reading this PFBC article on stream closures, in context with my experiences here in Montana, I believe PA have really missed the mark.

"...PFBC staff believe this may result in angler frustration with trying to determine when and where they may go fishing..."

C'mon guys. People aren't that stupid. You develop a policy that is aimed at protecting the fishery. You communicate that policy. When stream flows get too low, and/or temperatures get too high, you shut down the fishing. You communicate the shutdowns, and the vast majority of people will understand, RESPECT the reasons for the shutdown, and comply with it.

Worrying about how to enforce a policy should be way down on the list, if on the list at all, in the decision process of when actions should be taken to protect the fishery.

Incidentally, I'm sure most of you know by now that nearly 180 miles of the Yellowstone River, including all of its tributaries here in MT has recently been closed to all recreation, including fishing, because of a massive kill of whitefish by a parasite. This action is unprecedented in the state's history, has a MAJOR economic impact on hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people whose income is derived from this river.

Earlier this past week, i attended a meeting in Livingston, MT, with state FWP personnel, and 300 others to discuss this shutdown. Many people at this meeting are now unemployed as a result of this shutdown, and some of them will loose their entire businesses as a result. However, I have not heard a single person disagree with the river closure, and other than questions regarding when the river might reopen (which is unknown at this time), I don't have any sense that this action has resulted in "angler frustration with trying to determine when and where they might go fishing."

Let's try to do what's right for the fish. In the long run, that's what will be right for the fishermen.

John

 

[JF_]

That was excellent John, thanks......

JF

 

[Chaz]

State wide bass fishing is C & R for the spawning season, at least it used to be. I'm not sure now, but they never had a problem enforcing it, I suspect most anglers think of bass as wild fish and they need that time. Trout on the other hand are seem as once and done stocked fish, and for nearly 150 years now there's always been a big stink raised when there have been closures of trout streams for various reason.
I think that pretty much sums up the big difference between anglers in Mt. and those in Pa. Part of the job of PFBC is education, and they don't do it well.
The enforcement staff seem to always come up with the same excuse also.

 

[streamerguy]

Shaner wrote:
"That article says it'd be tough for law enforcement to enforce a stream closure"

Even if its tough to enforce/or not enforced at all - less people would fish it then having it open like now. Even if hard to enforce the word of one person getting fined travels around quick.

Tough to enforce a stream closure.......well, they close tons of streams from March 1st until the opener. And on top of that the WCOs are busy almost every day stocking fish during that time period. Seems like it would be a bit easier to enforce some summer stream closures than keeping an eye on the streams in March, while stocking "put and take" trout at the same time......

Targeting bass on beds is unlawful in PA. Would it be that hard to make targeting spawning trout unlawful as well?? Yeah, it may be extremely hard to enforce just like people fishing over bass, but like Shaner said.......less people would do it.

 

[Maurice]

WCOs are busy this time of year ticketing boaters. No time to go looking all over for a small fine when you can put a boat in a lake and have unlimited revenue.

 

[streamerguy]

True, but lack of enforcement is still a poor excuse to not close streams. They could still drive by popular streams during the slow boating times. It's not like they are tied up doing stockings, and not enforcing anything at all.

For the most part people obey the regulations. Limits, special regs, etc. even if there is very little chance of actually getting checked by an officer. Closing down streams/stream sections will mean less people will fish those places and stress the fish, and if those places see officers on a sort of regular basis......even better.