PFBC granted authority to set license fees

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Sure.

Im not sure why they would. Seeing that nearly every state has studied this and came to the same conclusion would be a rather perplexing conspiracy theory. I mean that level of coordination would involve something with much more worth to gain than not stocking over fish.:lol:

 

[troutbert]

maxima12 wrote:
Your wrong. Wild fish thrive and the stocking of fish over top

Maxima12

Tell that to the fisheries biologists.

You're saying the PFBC biologists are wrong, and have been from the 1970s up to the present, and are opposing the type of management they have been trying to do to improve wild trout populations.

And you still claim to "support" the PFBC.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

One more thing now that it is on subject.

Mike K who posts here was a fisheries biologist. Sometimes i would disagree with him. I am not a fisheries biologist, but have read about fish and fisheries for 32 years. Scientific literature to anecdotal angler lore. Still i am just a hobbyist at best.
Sometimes i do think PFBC biologists have to tote a thin line, so while i get angry when I think they are, i have no idea what the job entails. I highly respect Mike, even if our interactions on the board seem opposite. The PFBC is a great organization with great people. Could they be better? Sure. Could I be better? Your damn right. So I do support the PFBC with every ounce of my being like you say you do Maxima. Im just not sure though, are you suggesting some great conspiracy here?
I know the PFBC officers, biologist and the like are great people who want what we want. Better fishing! So say it ain't so

Still, yes there are streams that wild fish thrive in that are also stocked. No doubt. General science still concludes it is bad for the wild fish.

How many fisheries have brown trout replaced native brook trout in? No one really knows but it is a very good number im sure. Stocking in PA has been disastrous for native brook trout.


It's unarguable. Stocking over wild fish has been bad for wild fish. You could however argue that certain watersheds that are stocked have a minimal effect on the wild fish and thus the social and economic aspect of stocking out weighs the negative result to the wild population.

Maxima what you are arguing is not factual and rather dangerous to the overall benefit to trout fishing in PA.

I like to think if Willie Keeler was a fly fisherman, he might have said, "stock'em where they ain't".

Its more fish for everyone!
Don't you agree?

 

[rrt]

Well, I guess I'll add anecdotal experience. When stocking on a number of streams I like to fish was ended in the 1980s, the population of wild trout did not gradually increase; it pretty much exploded in only a couple of years. It was great to see the numbers of trout increase for season-long fishing, and there was a nice mixture of age classes of wild trout.

Besides not having stocked trout displace smaller wild trout during the spring, which depressed wild trout numbers, the catch-and-release ethic that developed among season-long trout fishermen has helped to increase the numbers of wild trout in our streams. I would guess that 80% or more trout fishermen tried to kill their limits when I began to fish pretty seriously in the late 1960s. I would guess that now 80% or more season-long trout fishermen practice catch-and-release fishing or limited kill angling, not only for trout but for other species as well.

There are, however, streams that need stocked trout to provide recreational trout fishing, and these should continue to receive hatchery trout. Since most of these stocked trout will die due to various stresses throughout a season, it is probably best to harvest them to make the best use of them. I think Maxi is correct in his desire to kill stocked trout, but I think he is not thinking clearly when he advocates placing hatchery trout in streams where wild trout can pretty much take care of providing healthy age classes of fish. I also think Maxi should consider practicing catch-and-release fishing on unstocked wild trout streams.

Anyhow, I think the PFBC does a good job in managing the various types of trout streams in the state, those that support viable populations of wild trout without stocking and those that need stocked trout to provide a recreational fishery. It's tough to balance these out, but the PFBC does a good job of doing it.

 

[maxima12]

Where did these so called wild fish come from! Some hatcheries have closed. Why? Because of the wild trout increase in population. No, because of no money.

I try to follow the game. A friend once said, "I have eliminated staff, cut clerical staff, reduced overhead, reduced operating costs by cutting on the job employees, reduced overtime, put in a balance of do without. "Want More". I plan to reduce stocking.

Shame, my friend listened to the planners. He listened so much, he forgot his own plan! I could listen to "WHAT YOU SAY", but i might forget my "PLAN".

My plan is simple, "Provide good fishing, to everyone, while helping the economic base associated with the "Great Pa. Outdoor Experience". If i give up a little on "Wild". I will double it on fullfillment. Wild will come but the time is not now. Govt. regulations have made this a thought for the future. Now, fellows, you want to help, put that loot towards, clean water act revival. Gold mining, copper mining, fossil fuel consumption. We need a talk. We are not close yet. Maybe in the world of 10g.

Do what we can now and then the sooner we will get there!

The wild, the biologists are not even close. 1970, you say, 50 years later. Hell, i should have wild trout in my bathtub by now!

What you see is a mirage. Or maybe i would look better, if i looked into the mirror everyday, or maybe i can not for not telling the truth!

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Just to add. Ill give you a good example. There is a Class A wild brown trout stream in a city park. They stock it for a kids derby. Im not totally against that in certain instances but not here.
This "sportsman " club gets a permit for kids to fish. Yeah, go watch. The kids hardly fish. Then the slobs block up the stream and pen in apex predators they can hardly catch and many make it through. The months preceding this suck for wild trout fishing. By the time it gets good again, its derby time!

The worst part is its right beside a decent sized ice skating pond. You want to teach your kids fishing? Drain that and have the fire company fill it with cold water. Stock the crap out of it and let your kids have at the hogs.

Then later sneak away to the creek and show the PA's beauty and catch a few wild fish and put them back.
Then go home and show Mom how well your kids did and have a stocked fish dinner.

You will hook them for life.

Maxima,

Im fairly certain the large PA wild brook trout ive caught in my life were not a mirage.
Then again, they are that colorful aint they? ;-)

 

[ryansheehan]

maxima12 wrote:

I never really saw cabins full on wild streams.

Whats that creek that has green drakes that's always empty..........lol

 

[bikerfish]

Just like everything else, some people will just never "get it".

 

[Sruflytyer]

Yeah dude.... stocking over what you consider “wild” trout ( naturally sustaining trout may be a better term) is definitely detrimental to their population. Out competing habitat, spawning sites and food are the top 3 factors that come to mind....

I believe it is a good thing that PFBC can set their own fees. It is pretty cheap to fish here in PA as a resident and we are fortunate. PFBC does not have land resources like PGC to drive income with downturns in hunting/fishing licenses sales. They are struggling.....And for the record PGC, DCNR and PFBC all are separate entities in the state and are not one like most of the states in murica

 

[larkmark]

I probably will never support everything PAFBC does. While biologists and other science offer facts the organization is often slow to follow them. As I said before they are a political organization as much as any other government agency so they answer to industry and agricultural interests as much as anything about our streams. Pay attention to what the PAFBC says in there publications and see if the overall positive tone matches the reality of what is happening to our waterways and fish. In the end I support their stated mission and respect many of the people involved. And no to stocking over wild trout with a few exceptions. And yes to them raising price of licenses.

 

[troutbert]

ryansheehan wrote:

maxima12 wrote:

I never really saw cabins full on wild streams.

Whats that creek that has green drakes that's always empty..........lol

Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded.

 

[maxima12]

Now is a good time to "Pull The Sheets". Yes, stocking over a wild trout population, is devastating. The Brook Trout will be no more! I have in my life seen Brook Trout take a beaten.

You new people, we need your help! Take an active role, "NOW", for you and your children and your children's children. Much needs to think it through. A visionary addictive policy! Brookie stream, needs a helping hand. Brown Trout and Rainbow, No more Brookies. Takes time till gone but gone they go. Nevermore!

Now, i pull from every angle, the left and right. Pull, these people in, by hook or crook. Sometimes the fool but would you have it any other way.

My feelings is, 100 views, big deal!! 2000 views, i got you thinking and on the right page! The right page is:

Support, Pa. like it is your "Family". So much Family has been lost but i look to my new future "Family". You know, the one's you lost but will never forget.

"Family is here". On this site. "Get Some". I like fishing, "It is Fun". Join the family of "Brotherly Love" better than being alone!

Maxima12

As far as the State of Pa. on outdoors. I think it will only get better!
I like what it has done for me and all my friends.