Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission looks to create premium trout fishing opportunities

[Fishidiot]

Mike wrote:
Just curious, what specific DH Areas by region do you think would be ideal for such a program (and why)?

It seems to me the Tulpehocken would be a good candidate for this program: it's already a popular fishery and close to major population areas. Maybe the Brandywine too.

In southcentral, the aforementioned Quittapahilla would be good. Cove Creek might be good. So would Wiconisco (if it is DHALO, I can't remember). However, these streams aren't really destination streams and are on the smaller side. I think Tully is a much better candidate if we're using Pine Creek as an ideal case study.

 

[Chaz]

I thought it was a dumb idea a year ago when I first heard about it, and I still think it's a dumb idea. Main reason, 3300 trout for over 1 million anglers. Now if it were 3300 trout per stream I'd think better of it, but it better not be in a watershed that has wild trout in it already.
It would be better to spend money on improving habitat where the potential for big trout already exists. You got a big wild trout stream but not producing big trout, improve the habitat and biomass so the trout do grow big, then replicate it in other streams.

 

[blueheron]

One stream in each "district " will get @ 400 bigger fish, I've fished over concentrated brood stockings elsewhere and though the number may seem substantial the average angler may not see his catch rate go up significantly after the first couple of weeks, still a good idea, hope does spring eternal. I still think I'm gonna catch a fish every cast.

 

[troutbert]

Suggestions for picking locations:

1) Public land, not private.

2) Streams not on the wild trout reproduction list.

3) Streams with good physical habitat (pools & overhead cover).

 

[Mike]

Fishidiot: It would be interesting to hear what the Tully anglers might say in response to your suggestion. The E Br Brandywine, however, is borderline with respect to water temps by mid to late June.

As for the Quitty habitat work, if it is what I am thinking of, that was partially funded by the PFBC's Tully/Quitty grant process, an account that has a steady inflow of funds for grants in those two drainages.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Mike wrote:
Fishidiot: It would be interesting to hear what the Tully anglers would say, especially the organized ones (the minority) in comparison to the unaffiliated ones who just enjoy fishing (the majority).

Could you expand this thought? I don't think organized tully anglers mind more fish going in the creek. In fact I think they would welcome it, why do you think they would hate it? Because of the fingerling stockings vs adult trout? I do think they mind the amount of laws broken there daily though.

Personally I think it is a great candidate for such a program, but the quitte has more potential to holdover more the fish.

Also do the organized ones not just enjoy fishing while they are on the water?

 

[troutbert]

Some possible choices:

Oil Creek

Tulpehocken Cr

Meadow Run (SW PA)

East Branch Clarion River (below the dam)

First Fork Sinnemahoning, but only if the length of the DH area is expanded. It's already very crowded and this would bring in more anglers.

The possibility of creating some NEW DH areas for this should also be considered.

And if you are going to do it in existing DH areas, consider extending the length. Many of these areas are already busy, and this will bring in additional anglers.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

East Branch of the Clarion holds wild fish and acts as summer refuge for the mainstem's lunker wilds. I wouldn't pick there.

I have not fished all these creeks and I have no idea about physical habitat and wild fish on some of them. I will say most of these have good mileage to the DH area and are popular. Also this list is spread over the entire state. The guys in the West and SE need this program more than most but still it should be spread out. Moreover Adding length should be considered or attempted per troutberts point. Also making a new one would not be a bad idea either. We could use more Special Reg areas. Here ya go.

Here are 11 I think good choices:

SCHUYLKILL
Little Schuylkill River – 1.7 miles; from SR 0895 in New Ringgold downstream to the T-848 Bridge near Rauschs

BERKS
Tulpehocken Creek – 3.8 miles; from the first deflector below Blue Marsh Dam downstream to the covered bridge

LUZERNE
Nescopeck Creek – 2.4 miles; from the upstream boundary of State Game Lands #187 downstream to a cable across the stream

LEBANON
Quittapahilla Creek – 1.1 miles; from Spruce Street Bridge on T-398 downstream to the SR 0934 Bridge

McKEAN
Kinzua Creek – 2.3 miles; From SR 219 at Tallyho downstream to Camp Run

LYCOMING
Loyalsock Creek – 1.5 miles; from the Lycoming/Sullivan County line downstream to Sandy Bottom

Lycoming Creek – 1.3 miles; from the SR 0015 bridge (Old Route 15) near Haleeka upstream 1.3 miles to the riffle upstream of Powys Curve

ALLEGHENY
Deer Creek – 2.1 miles; from the SR 0910 Bridge at T-678 intersection downstream to the lower boundary of Rose Ridge Golf Course

WESTMORELAND
Loyalhanna Creek – 1.7 miles; from SR 711 downstream to SR 2045

VENANGO
Oil Creek – 1.6 miles; from bridge at Petroleum Center downstream to railroad bridge at Columbia Farm
Oil Creek – 1 mile; from the two green posts near the Drake Well Museum downstream to Oil Creek State Park hiking trail bridge

LAWRENCE
Neshannock Creek – 2.7 miles; from the base of the Mill Dam in Volant downstream to the covered bridge on T-476

 

[The_Sasquatch]

The Lil' Skuke is a GREAT candidate, in my opinion. Just a few months ago Mike was hinting that unless more people started using the DHALO section, it very well could be going away. Well....put a few giant pellet heads in there.

Seriously. The Commission may want to think about using some of these "under utilized" DHALO sections for this project. It would genuinely be interesting to see if traffic goes up.

 

[moon1284]

And by the way... fishing for stocked fish is "real fishing".... Going to guess you "real fishermen" probably catch stocked holdovers and think they are wild half the time.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone with my post. I still do think this is a good idea to promote trout fishing.

However, I disagree with you. Fishing for abnormally large stocked trout is not real fishing - its for kids and beginners.

 

[troutbert]

foxtrapper1972 wrote:

And by the way... fishing for stocked fish is "real fishing".... Going to guess you "real fishermen" probably catch stocked holdovers and think they are wild half the time.

Catching wild trout, and thinking they are stocked holdovers is extremely common, especially with wild brown trout.

Which error is more common is anybody's guess.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

There are other streams I think would be a better fit but are not DH areas, so I didn't mention them.

But for the love of god, do not do this to Falling Spring.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Doing this on FSB would be the idiotic move the century.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

As far as fishing for stockies, it's not just for beginners and kids. I usually chase wild troots, and I don't go out of my way to seek stockies, but there are times when I thoroughly enjoy a stocked stream. Anyone who has fished Pine Creek through the canyon knows what I'm talking about.

 

[McSneek]

Sal has some good suggestions although I think the Quitty is a little on the small side for this. It does have the benefit of cold water and if people C&R these fish they have a good chance of being there for the next person.

 

[troutbert]

shortrod2 wrote:

Fishidiot wrote:

This proposal is an outgrowth of the situation with the DHALo on Pine Creek. This section is privately stocked and has become a significant economic draw. The PFBC has taken note of this success and is considering ways to possibly replicate it.

The reg area that the PFBC are trying to replicate is now C&RAT instead of DHALO.

Good point. The regs area on Pine Creek that they are talking about replicating is ALL TACKLE, not artificials only.

Is that part of the proposal? Stocking big fish, and changing the regs to all tackle?

I'm just asking. The info in the article isn't clear on this point.

Maybe Mike can clarify.

 

[Fishidiot]

troutbert wrote:
Good point. The regs area on Pine Creek that they are talking about replicating is ALL TACKLE, not artificials only.
Is that part of the proposal? Stocking big fish, and changing the regs to all tackle?

I don't think so.
The popular, private trophy trout program predated the period when the reg section was lengthened and the regs changed to AT C&R. Unless the PFBC envisions considerable increases in the length of DHALO sections, it seems unlikely that they would have any need to change the regs from DHALO to something else.

We should also keep in mind that the popularity of this section of Pine Cr stems not only from the size of the fish that the Slate Run club stocks, but also the quality of the fish. Anyone who has caught these fish can attest to their fine coloration and appearance. I'm not sure the PFBC fish can match this aspect. Another angle is the natural beauty of the area. It was always a popular fishery, even before it became DHALo a few years ago. The majestic ambiance combined with these high quality trout has really made for an appealing experience and tourism has responded. It seems to me that if the PFBC wants to replicate this success, they need to consider the whole experience, not just the size of the fish they stock. This is why I think the Tully would be the best possibility: it has the size and natural beauty, good public access and is situated within a popular outdoor destination area (Blue Marsh). Cold water refugia also exists (as it does on Pine) enabling the possibility of holdover. You need more than just big fish to make this work.

 

[shortrod2]

Well said Dave.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

let reverse the question. Mike, what waters do think are a good fit and why? Or what ones are a bad fit and why?

 

[Oregon_Owl]

Surprised to hear Little Schuylkill might be going away. I always liked going up there. Pretty location but not too far from the maddening crowds.