PA Trout Parks?

afishinado

afishinado

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Trophy trout program a possibility


Would the chance to catch bigger fish draw anglers to specific locations?

Probably.
Can the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission create such “destination” fisheries, specifically for trout?

That’s a little less certain. But the agency is exploring the idea.
During a recent presentation to lawmakers, commission executive director John Arway said the agency is looking at the idea of creating what might be called a “trophy trout” program.

A private club on Pine Creek in Lycoming County has been stocking large brown trout in that stream. It’s boosted business for tackle shops, lodges, restaurants and more, he said.

Arway said staff has talked to commissioners about trying to do recreate that on a handful of waters around the state. How many and which ones are still to be determined, he said.

Indeed, Leroy Young, director of the commission’s bureau of fisheries, said such specifics are a long ways off. No decisions have even been made on if or when to bring any proposed program framework to the board for consideration, he said.

“It’s something we have talked about, but it’s far from something I can even discuss in any kind of general terms yet,” he said. “We’re just not there yet.”

There are a lot of factors to consider, he said, from locations to rules of harvest to whether the commission can even supply enough large trout create trophy fisheries.

Arway said talks about the program will continue, though, with ,ore details perhaps available by fall.

“We want to see if we can create this in a few spots, then see about rolling it out to other places,” Arway said.

Link to source: http://blog.triblive.com/wild-outdoors/2015/03/17/trophy-trout-program-a-possibility/




Missouri Trout Parks


The four Missouri Trout Parks see more fishermen by far than all the other trout waters combined, so, obviously, there must something good going on. Like most types of trout waters, the trout parks have their pro's and con's.

At the trout parks, you'll find amenities that will please the whole family. These include manicured lawns, plenty of lodging and/or improved camping sites, retail stores, restaurants, playgrounds, museums, swimming pools, etc. Three of the four parks also provide great floating rivers just downstream with numerous outfitters ready to rent you a canoe. And, of course, there are tons of fish with easy bank access, even to those fishermen with physical challenges. The Missouri Department of Conservation stocks the parks every night between March 1 and October 31, stocking roughly two fish for every fisherman they expect to show up the next day.

Of course, there is a downside. You're typically fishing in crowded conditions. You must purchase a daily fishing tag and actually attach it to your person so conservation agents can verify you've paid without having to survey the fishermen one by one. You must follow strict regulations regarding what type of bait may be used in which area. A siren sounds to alert you to when you may begin fishing and when you must stop. Overall, the fact that they have you jump through so many hoops is actually kind of comical. And, with so many other trout fishing opportunities available, there are many fishermen who avoid the trout parks like the plague.

In fact, a primary reason that trout parks seems to rub some trout fisherman the wrong way is that the rivers are of such high quality, a true naturally reproducing trout fishery could be developed on any of those sites. To those fishermen, a commercial trout park of this nature seems like a waste of natural resources.

Supporters, however, feel that the trout parks do a wonderful job at making natural resources accessible to those who would otherwise be left out, and this is a great point. The trout parks serve another of the MDC's primary purposes, as well. They are the best recruiters of new trout fishermen in this state.

Link to source: http://www.missouritrouthunter.com/TroutParks.htm

Coming to a PA Class A soon?...
 
afishinado wrote:
Coming to a PA Class A soon?...

I think the above is a bit of a cheap shot and liable to start unfounded rumors and misinformation. Something we don't really need more of on this board.

On the subject of or proposed "trophy trout parks" I'm pretty neutral to the idea. I do not see myself utilizing such an area unless it is practically at my doorstep. As long as the fish commision does not stock on wild trout water, or remove popular special regs areas in favor of these trophy areas, I see no problem with them. Ideally they would just be ATW areas that have a much higher than normal number of large hatchery fish and corresponding additional regs for the large fish.

My concern would be enforcement of whatever special regs, if any, are placed on these special areas. I could see poaching being a real problem, and creating a need for additional patrol and enforcement. Something the PAFBC might not be able to handle. I fear other areas getting even less attention from the WCO's because of local trophy areas needing more attention.

The unnaturally large and numerous fish don't appeal to me personally, and I don't consider a 22" stocked fish any more of a trophy than 9" stocker. The only real difference between them is size. There is no charm in big pellet heads like there is with big wild fish. I prefer the more natural number and size distribution found in the current stocking program. A lot of average fish with a few bigger fish and some very large fish to keep it interesting. However, there is a segment of the license holding population that would eat this crap up and if they can figure out away to make it work, I'm fine with it. Just don't muck things up in the process.

Finally, as far as creating a "destination," I dunno. This isn't going to create a destination stream like Penn's, Spring, etc. I don't think this idea will be implemented on a stream that already provides year round trout fishing, so it will ultimately face the same short seasonal use as regular ATW's, except the angling pressure will probably be more intense during that time period.

In reality don't think this is much for us to get excited about until the commission indicates they plan on disregarding current wild trout streams or special regs areas. I'd prefer that the PAFBC put their resources into improving naturally sustaining fisheries, but if they aren't going to do that anyway and doing trophy stocker areas doesn't hurt what we already have, sure, go ahead, whatever.
 
At the trout parks, you'll find amenities that will please the whole family. These include manicured lawns, plenty of lodging and/or improved camping sites, retail stores, restaurants, playgrounds, museums, swimming pools, etc.

Exactly opposite of what I am looking for when I'm fishing.

The Missouri Department of Conservation stocks the parks every night between March 1 and October 31, stocking roughly two fish for every fisherman they expect to show up the next day.

Why not just set up a stand streamside, and sell freshly cleaned fish, packaged and ready for the pan? Much easier, and just about as much fun.

Of course, there is a downside. You're typically fishing in crowded conditions. You must purchase a daily fishing tag..... A siren sounds to alert you to when you may begin fishing and when you must stop. Overall, the fact that they have you jump through so many hoops is actually kind of comical.

A *SIREN*? Are you kidding?? :-o

And, with so many other trout fishing opportunities available, there are many fishermen who avoid the trout parks like the plague.

That would be me, in spades.

In fact, a primary reason that trout parks seems to rub some trout fisherman the wrong way is that the rivers are of such high quality, a true naturally reproducing trout fishery could be developed on any of those sites. To those fishermen, a commercial trout park of this nature seems like a waste of natural resources.

Solid point.

Supporters, however, feel that the trout parks do a wonderful job at making natural resources accessible to those who would otherwise be left out, and this is a great point.

Making fishing accessible to physically handicapped anglers is about the *only* upside that I can see, but that objective could be better accomplished in other ways.

The trout parks serve another of the MDC's primary purposes, as well. They are the best recruiters of new trout fishermen in this state.

Ummm, I think they meant "best revenue generators, using instant-gratification worm drowners and corn soakers", as it will not recruit anybody who actually wants to be a "fisherman" in the broader sense of the term. They are looking for the short-attention-span, minimal-work-expended-for-the-easiest/quickest-payback crowd, willing to pay for that "experience".

Coming to a PA Class A soon?...

Keep this stuff in the pay lakes. They are already offering this "service". Keep it contained in a body of water that doesn't spread to other bodies, and isolated from the beautiful streams that PA has to offer.

 
The Missouri Trout Parks example sounds a bit like the old 1930s Fisherman's Paradise model.

Hhmmm. . .
 
If they try to do this on good wild trout water they will run into a lot of opposition.

And most places that have conditions for supporting trout year around have good wild trout populations.

So, where would they do it?

The Youghiogheny River, from the dam to the confluence of the Casselman River, would be one possibility.

 
Just an observation from Pa. For one or two weekend days out of the year a similar thing happens in a short piece of the Monocacy and a fairly long stretch of the Ltl Lehigh, but not the LL class A stretch. It is popular on both and in the case of the LL many people pony up the price for the experience. It is pretty crowded and then on the days that follow many anglers show up to fish out whatever they can without having to pay the event fee? I am just mentioning these events for educational purposes and not to promote them, but to see them does make me step back for a moment and makes me realize that the demand is definitely there within a segment of the angling public and that segment is willing to pay for the experience.
 
NO THANKS
Didnt the state just go through something similar with Antler Restrictions

When are those idjits in Harrisburg going to learn its not about stocked fish!!!!
 
The first thing that comes to mind is, we don't need mowed lawns at these places, we need fishermen to be shown things about good habitat and how it benefits fish,not just trout but the environment in streams. Use streams that are already in State Parks and I'd be fine with it, and maybe some big waters like Pine Creek, Sinnemahoning, Kettle Creeks.
The biggest expense is the stocking. The trout parks in MO have hatcheries right there, no problem stocking. That's the biggest negative that I come up with.
 
There are already fee fishing places run by private parties where people can pay money and catch big trout.
 
Tigereye wrote:
NO THANKS
Didnt the state just go through something similar with Antler Restrictions

When are those idjits in Harrisburg going to learn its not about stocked fish!!!!

Maybe not for you, and maybe not for me, but for some people, it is about the stocked fish. Take a broader perspective on this - not everyone is a wild trout purist. People pay a lot of money to go hunting on private hunting reserves, where the animals are stocked or at least cultivated to some degree.

I personally would never set foot on such a trout park, and I only hope they wouldn't ruin otherwise perfectly good streams. But to the point that trout derbys and rodeos (and for that matter, the whole circus like affair that is Opening day) are popular, there certainly would be a segment of the angling public that would go for this. Consider the Lake Erie tribs as another example, kind of like a regional trout park..
 
Mike wrote:
For one or two weekend days out of the year a similar thing happens...

....and makes me realize that the demand is definitely there within a segment of the angling public and that segment is willing to pay for the experience.

Yeah, for *one or two days a year*. Do you think you'd have the same level of participation all season long? It's a novelty, and something with a limited time draw. Even then, you have a bunch of other guys NOT willing to pay, and will only show up afterwards.

How much extra effort does that take for two days a year? Minimal.

Compare that to the extra work of stocking EVERY NIGHT, the extra patrols and enforcement, and other manpower/resources to keep a stream dedicated to this year-round (or just every day from spring through fall).
 
If they don't destroy any natural trout streams or even those trout streams that are stocked and hold good numbers of fish then I say they should do it. Maybe that will reduce the number of elbows I bump on some weekends if they can go catch a "trophy trout" somewhere else.
 
I am by no means a Wild Trout Purist. In fact I couldn't tell you the last time I caught a wild trout, let alone targeted them.

However the issue is that the PFBC focuses all their resources and energy on stocked trout and less on stream management

My viewpoint comes from the management of the Lehigh River. Here is an opportunity to have a great self sustaining fishery that would cost fisherman ZERO dollars if managed correctly.
 
Hey PFBC, did you miss the study done on the Catskills / Delaware river? I thought I remember a report showing 13 million in income to the surrounding area due to the angling opportunities. Link to one of the studies from 2013
http://www.catskillcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/CCCD-FUDR-Position-Whitepaper.pdf

TB wrote: "If they try to do this on good wild trout water they will run into a lot of opposition."

Where do you think they'll try to pull this off? It won't be on some freestoner that's got yo-yo flows and temps. Coming soon to a limestoner / Class A near you !!

Once again, I'll bring up the outlet of Raystown. Manage flows so that the temps never exceed 64 degrees where it joins the Juniata. Plant egg boxes and fingerlings hatched from wild stock. Mother nature will take care of the rest and you'll have trophy trout opportunities for 5 miles and may have marginal / transient habitat for another 5 miles below the junction.
 
trout parks????
that may just be the dumbest thing I've heard of.
they really ARE desperate to drum up new business.
 
Well, I echo the concerns about doing it in a quality trout fishery capable of harboring trout year round. i.e. wild trout streams and even fingerling stocked streams should be off limits.

For a seasonal fishery on something that already relies on stocking, I don't have any idealistic opposition, but I'd guestimate the trade off is this:

If you do this, the state must raise trophies for it. If they make EXTRA trophies, then it's going to be at the expense of a larger number of regular sized stockies, meaning less will be stocked elsewhere. There's already less being stocked elsewhere, and plenty of bad opinions about it. So everywhere else, this is making a bad situation worse for the sake of creating a few of these parks.

Since they already raise trophies, they could just use these. However, to stock one area full of them, means you won't be putting any of them elsewhere. i.e. most stocked streams have a large number of regular sized fish and an occasional trophy. You're taking away the occasional trophy from everywhere else.

Personally, I have no interest. While I prefer wild fish, I do occasionally fish for stockies out of convenience. That said, in any sort of fishing, my goal is to make it as natural a situation as possible. i.e. I abhor huge concentrations of fish, abnormal size for the habitat, etc. This would be creating about as unnatural a situation as can be imagined.

That said, I also have a 3 year old that I'll be teaching to fish over the next decade. We'll start off for bluegills at the pond, but yeah, this could be a decent introduction to trout before moving him onto more difficult situations.

There are private clubs that essentially fill the same role anyway. (and when I was young, my dad took me to them on occasion for the same reason I may take my kid). I shake my head at adults who fish such places. But it makes sense for kids.
 
the 'event' on the Monocacy is a joke, but no doubt it shows that there is a demand. For those that have never seem it it goes like this:

1. Stock really big fish in a small section of park and block off the end of the stream with orange snow fence.
2. Harass/ threaten anyone who dares to fish there who is in the 'event', even though it is on public water in a public park.
3. During the 'kids only' part, lots of dads and friends 'help' kids to catch fish.
4. After event is over other anglers who don't want to pony up the entrance fee descend on said park in an attempt to utilize uncaught fish.

It is real nice to see 20+" fish swimming around with spinners/ hooks/ lures hanging off their backs after many people have attempted to 'catch' them with 2 or 4 lb test.

I understand the the allure of big fish, and realize that this is not a exact representation of what would happen. The 'kids only' part of that event might also shed some light on how the reg change to DHALO might work.
 
What a stupid idea. Quite frankly, I hate the direction our state is going in "trout fishing". What a joke. It seems like all the PFBC wants to do is get new people into the sport and their method is by making it as simple as possible to catch fish. Fishing is not always easy so something like this is promoting fallacies of fishing.

Instead of trying so damn hard to get new people into the sport and making money. Why not start caring about the people who already love the sport and just fish for no other reason than pure enjoyment. Every time there is some kind of change being talked about, it is always brought up that it is for getting more people into the sport. In other words, "we need more money in license sales". I never hear of a change being considered because they want to keep us people already fishing happy. I work at a University and there is a thing called retention. That is keeping the people (students) you already have from going elsewhere.

We already have destination areas in the state that receive much money from us fisherman. I don't care what any study shows. I spend at least a grand every year going to state college. There are lot more people like me doing it also. There is no way to track what my money is being spent for. No one asks me at the gas station if my coffee and gas purchase is for a fishing trip. They also don't ask me at the grocery store if my food being purchased is for my fishing trip.
 
Where do you think they'll try to pull this off? It won't be on some freestoner that's got yo-yo flows and temps. Coming soon to a limestoner / Class A near you !!

It is not the policy of the PFBC to stock class a water........
Oh wait, that's right.
 
Yeah so they just remove it from the Class A list...problem solved.
 
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