PA Tail Waters

spot on. Same reason the Bald Eagle won't go all C&R or have FF only anytime soon. There are longstanding traditions and culture associated with various waterways.
I dislike FFO sections and I also don't think that Bald Eagle should be C&R. Bald Eagle is an amazing stream with a fantastic population of fish. If you want C&R regs you have all of Spring Creek right there just minutes from Bald Eagle. I will let you all figure out which one has many more quality sized fish in it.
 
The Kinzua tailwater has the same odd temp fluctuations as Beltsville in the OP.
It's at its warmest in the middle of the day right around noon - then drops during the afternoon.

Besides being built for flood control, it's also produces hydroelectric.
I've just attributed the temp drop to increased power generation demand as the day goes on. From whatever level they draw from.

I've also always welcomed the cooler water temps during the afternoon and evening, as that is when most hatching and rising takes place
 
As a local to the area of the Raystown Dam I think the locals would not like the transition of the Raystown Branch below the dam to a cold-water trout fishery. It would change the nice warm and relaxing river and all the campsites along it and bring an influx of unwanted outsiders. If you're not familiar with the Huntingdon/Mifflin/Juniata region and the river, the smallmouth bass fishery means a lot to folks. Campsites are like gold and there is some sort of special pride in being a redneck "river-rat." I can identify with this having grown up here and spent much of my time sloshing around in the Juniata in old sneakers learning about all sorts of things.

There is an abundance of nice and relaxing campsites along that portion of Raystown Branch and I doubt the people that utilize it for R&R want outsiders with fancy, pretentious gear and attitudes overtaking their redneck paradise. Plus there is a lot of trout water around that stays cold year round.

I don't know, the Raystown Branch might be very cool and could potentially be an amazing trout river. The needs and wants of us trout-centric folks don't just supersede the needs and wants of all others, though.
But,what about the kayaking and rafting opportunities that a cool,good summer flows open up? What country folk type people don't enjoy floating down a cool river on a hot day drinking a cooler full of Busch?
 
spot on. Same reason the Bald Eagle won't go all C&R or have FF only anytime soon. There are longstanding traditions and culture associated with various waterways.
I assume you said “all” C&R because and with mental reference to the new proposal.
 
But,what about the kayaking and rafting opportunities that a cool,good summer flows open up? What country folk type people don't enjoy floating down a cool river on a hot day drinking a cooler full of Busch?
Those kayaking and rafting experiences already exist in water more comfortable to lounge in than a brisk 50 degrees or whatever the water would be.

The Upper Juniata, where I am at least, stays much cooler than what you folks used to the Lower Suksky are used to. The river yesterday here in Granville was only 72 degrees while I was bass fishing yesterday evening.
 
But,what about the kayaking and rafting opportunities that a cool,good summer flows open up? What country folk type people don't enjoy floating down a cool river on a hot day drinking a cooler full of Busch?
I don’t know what such a coldwater discharge would amount to in comparison to the volume of cold water in the lake, but in that regard there may still be other coldwater resources to consider within the bigger picture. Raystown has had a substantial lake trout population and smelt population in the past, or at least it did. Something sticks in my mind though that the smelt took a beating when another species, gizzard or white perch was introduced.
 
I don’t know what such a coldwater discharge would amount to in comparison to the volume of cold water in the lake, but in that regard there may still be other coldwater resources to consider within the bigger picture. Raystown has had a substantial lake trout population and smelt population in the past, or at least it did. Something sticks in my mind though that the smelt took a beating when another species, gizzard or white perch was introduced.
Raystown definitely has a thriving laker population and a dedicated group of anglers that fish for them. Maybe not to the extent of the following that the stripers have, but the lakers are definitely popular with anglers.
 
I don’t know what such a coldwater discharge would amount to in comparison to the volume of cold water in the lake, but in that regard there may still be other coldwater resources to consider within the bigger picture. Raystown has had a substantial lake trout population and smelt population in the past, or at least it did. Something sticks in my mind though that the smelt took a beating when another species, gizzard or white perch was introduced.
Good points.. I guess every situation is different. East Branch Clarion River Lake would probably do better for the Lake Trout without the coldwater discharge?
 
Good points.. I guess every situation is different. East Branch Clarion River Lake would probably do better for the Lake Trout without the coldwater discharge?
Thanks. Logically analyzing the differences between and among seemingly similar situations and coming up with reasonable rationales for differential management decisions is part of fisheries management. Admittedly, sometimes such decisions are not popular with certain interests.
 
Last edited:
I assume you said “all” C&R because and with mental reference to the new proposal.
yes, specifically because of the proposal. But the proposal is just that. I know a couple of "regulars" who practice just what is being proposed.
It will be interesting to see the response from locals. Many may feel its the second step to more regulations- note the first was the current regulations.
I support it.
 
Raystown definitely has a thriving laker population and a dedicated group of anglers that fish for them. Maybe not to the extent of the following that the stripers have, but the lakers are definitely popular with anglers.
I don’t think Lakers spawn in there though isn’t it put and grow?
 
I don’t think Lakers spawn in there though isn’t it put and grow?
Probably but why does that matter? The stripers are also a put and grow situation.

These put and grow species are the top angling focuses on Raystown, imo. It gets bass fishermen too and grows some nice smallies, but most guys are chasing Lakers and stripers.

The Lakers also fill a deep water niche not occupied by many of the other fish.
 
Probably but why does that matter? The stripers are also a put and grow situation.

These put and grow species are the top angling focuses on Raystown, imo. It gets bass fishermen too and grows some nice smallies, but most guys are chasing Lakers and stripers.

The Lakers also fill a deep water niche not occupied by many of the other fish.
Oh you men’t “ thriving” as a fishery i thought you meant as fr as reproduction/self sustaining.
 
Oh you men’t “ thriving” as a fishery i thought you meant as fr as reproduction/self sustaining.
Oh no. I just meant the lakers do well in the lake and people like fishing for them. They are definitely an angling draw.
 
Oh no. I just meant the lakers do well in the lake and people like fishing for them. They are definitely an angling draw.
Id been meaning to go fish for them in he rays town. I have never caught one. I need to take my little dingy out there……need a trailer first.
 
The Codorus Creek outflow from Lake Marburg near Hanover, Pa., is reliable, but the creek ain't all that big and the lake is massive and deep.

As for Maryland, my home state, I can think of four cold-water release operations. As was mentioned at the beginning, they are fairly well managed, but it could be better. In all four cases, though, trout fishing is pretty much optimal.

Savage River from the Savage River Reservoir: pretty reliable, and a reasonable accommodation allowing for whitewater kayaking as well as trout fishing.

North Branch of the Potomac below Jennings Randolph: Pretty much the same comments as for Savage.

Big Hunting Creek: The creek is small and the lake is small. For years, DNR Fisheries has worked to keep enough flow below the dam to keep the fish healthy through the summer and have enough on hand to boost the flow for the autumn spawn. A lot of guys complain and blame the state park's desire to keep the recreational attributes of the lake going through summer, but the wild trout wouldn't be there if the lake were bled dry before the October-ish spawn. For years, it was the best wild trout stream in Maryland.

Big Gunpowder Falls below Prettyboy Reservoir: For decades after the reservoir was built as a reserve for the Loch Raven, the Gunpowder was maintained as a put-and-take fishery. The reservoir system is owned and operated by the City of Baltimore, which under the Maryland Constitution, is responsible for providing to the City as well as several suburban counties. At least as far back as the early 1970s, organizations like Trout Unlimited and the old Maryland Fly Anglers as well as the fledgling Free State Fly Fishers saw the potential of a cold water release from Prettyboy, but Baltimore City was uninterested in talking about it. Such was the case through the first term of Mayor Don Schaefer, but in his second term he decided he wanted to get some suburban support, so in the early 1980s, he had the city agree to a minimum release. In addition, the agreement included hiring a water works biologist who would have input into how releases would be arranged. This was to preclude massive midsummer floods followed by weeks of nearly dry streambed. This is the period when the Gunpowder blossomed into an important Mid Atlantic trout fishery. The city abided by the agreement for several years, and even did work on Prettyboy dam to improve the functionality of the cold water release valves. In more recent years, though, particularly after the biologist retired and was then not replaced, the city has been very letter-of-the law with regard to the releases. That's why we are back to getting massive floods followed by extended periods of minimal flow. Fortunately, the days of no flow seem to be off the table. It probably makes sense for some of us to revisit lobbying the city's leadership to get some semblance of balance restored to the Gunpowder releases. These days it seems like there are a fair number of us Gunpowder anglers who live and vote in the city limits, so I suspect there's some leverage to be exercised.
 
Id been meaning to go fish for them in he rays town. I have never caught one. I need to take my little dingy out there……need a trailer first.
You planning to use spinning or fly gear? Giving how deep they can run spinning gear makes the most sense. Drop a spoon down deep and vertical jig it if you can't troll for them. I have caught lakers before, but never from Raystown.
 
You planning to use spinning or fly gear? Giving how deep they can run spinning gear makes the most sense. Drop a spoon down deep and vertical jig it if you can't troll for them. I have caught lakers before, but never from Raystown.
Spinning for sure

Have a shimano reel that I saved up for a yar as a kid to buy still my favorite
 
The potential impact to the in lake fishery and the depletion of the cold water pool is always the excuse the PFBC tosses out there to in effect do nothing when it comes to potential establishment of a coldwater tailwater. Or should I say the two-tier fishery.
 
Thanks for writing all the JimKennedy. That's very interesting
 
Back
Top