Pa Stillwater’s

[Baron]

Andy Im hoping to get a fish finder installed and hit Upperwoods more carefully as the years roll by. In the heat of summer, given that the lake is reported to be oxygen deprived then, the tout and panfish should be at about the same depth.
I fished it in Late Nov. with worms out in front of the cove on the left, two feet under the surface in 10-25' of water. Then I fished on the bottom in twenty feet with a Carolina styled rig and powerboat eggs. Both methods worked well for Stockies.
the more that I fly fish the more I prefer it but allot of these deep lakes throw a crink in my understanding.

 

[andyruth93]

Baron I am not entirely clear on what happens during Spring and fall turnover. My basic understanding is that the water temperatures near the surface and bottom begin to read the same and with the aid of wind the water is mixed together. I believe this helps oxygenate (is that even a word?) the whole lake for the spring and summer months. It was also my understanding that trout would be deeper in summer months but maybe I'm not understanding something different about this lake being oxygen deprived below 10'? I'm wondering if you can explain that further.

On another note, next time you go out there you should definitely try approaching a drop off from the deeper side, drop an indicator on the shallow side with an active leader length that gets you close to bottom and tie on a bloodworm pattern and see what happens! I've never been around the lake so I can't tell you for sure what to use but other patterns to try would be scuds, water boatman and leeches. You might not be able to target the holdovers specifically but I think you'll eventually run into one. I have to admit that I do have the fish brain app downloaded on my phone just to check in and see what people are catching around the area and I see a couple of piggish looking trout and even see people catching them through ice in February. So definitely think there should be fish in there from past years.

 

[Baron]

Okay It my be like the blind leading the blind but Ill take a crack at it. One simplifying it:
-Come fall when the water temps drop and the wind picks up the water on top goes to the bottom along with its higher oxygen level. The temperature remains relatively constant and warmer then the top
-What becomes the top water (formerly on the bottom) renews its oxygen levels for the winter as well and varies up and down in temp and only trout put up with that.
-aprill and may comes on strong and the increasing light levels warm the surface and they roll over again to some degree. The higher light levels allow weeds and algae to grow which depletes the available oxygen in the water and gradually that line works its way up in the water column as the summer comes on. By the end of summer it could be pretty far up. A biologist mentioned to an acquaintance that there wasn't much going on below 10' in Upper Woods later in summer.
I sure hope someone in-the-know jumps in here and saves me and my reputation........


Ive seen the photos you mentioned online of the large trout in winter and that served as my motivation. Somewhere in there is a comment saying that they catch the trout just under the Ice and other species deeper down.

 

[andyruth93]

That does make more sense to me now. Thanks for getting into detail. I definitely have this place marked for a trip soon. Looking into getting an inflatable raft of some kind to at least get on some lakes and explore a bit.

 

[Baron]

Dicks always has cheap Kayaks for sale and once summer arrives canoe rentals always have scratch and dent sales. I have severe arthritis in lower spine and find both of these contraptions tough to take. I built a little drift boat and it is an improvement.

 

[silverfox]

Interesting. I just went through this same process of researching stillwater for trout. What I've found is that the vast majority of the information out there doesn't really apply to lakes in PA.

As was mentioned, most of the lakes here that support trout year round aren't supporting trout via insects, but rather the fish are almost entirely piscivorous. On top of the food, I think the lakes likely behave differently than northern, northwest, northern midwest etc. lakes.

The lake I'm interested in has a max depth of 60 ft and the biologist says that the thermocline has a high enough DO to support trout year round. I've spent the last 2 years trying to locate and catch trout in this lake to no avail. Last weekend I measured 44.2 degrees at the shore surface. Last year the highest temperature I recorded at the surface was 74.4. The lake is 300+ acres, and finding trout in that amount of water is proving tough.

I've almost mapped the entire lake at this point with sonar. I've tried around obvious underwater points etc., but I'm either using the wrong lure/bait or the fish aren't there.

I have caught trout at the surface in a few coves using wooly buggers though, and right now, the fish should be in the shallows chasing baitfish, but I'm not seeing it. I need to hit it when it's pretty windy and see if that changes anything. It's hard with an electric motor though.

Anyway, I'm personally not convinced the stillwater chironomid stuff would work. At least not the lake that I'm talking about (none of the ones mentioned previously).

The challenge with this type of fishing is certainly fun. Way different than reading a stream.

 

[Baron]

Silverfox you bring up some good points and confirmed some of my questions. Did you see fish on the bottom at 60' in summer? Is this a Pocono lake?

 

[andyruth93]

Yeah silverfox you pretty much laid out what I'm wondering and I have the same thoughts about the effectiveness of using chironomids around here in lakes. So maybe chironomids wouldn't be the best approach but I also wonder about using the same techniques but with damsels, scuds, leeches, baitfish patterns. I think they would be less likely to ignore these patterns. I certainly agree as well the conditions are much different.

I think the best way to know for sure what is going on with some of these trout is to just use a throat pump if you do happen to bring one up in one of these lakes. If you do happen to bring another one up with a bait/lure/buggers that's what I would do. It may not tell you everything they eat all year long but it'll give you a piece of the puzzle maybe.

 

[andyruth93]

Silverfox your scenario there seems like a tough one. Is the lake heavily fished? Do you think the trout see a lot of lures/bait? What would you guess the main forage of these trout would be?

 

[silverfox]

The thermocline is around 28 to 30 feet on the lake I'm fishing. I've marked sizeable fish just around the thermocline in odd places. I don't have a complete understanding of lakes by any means, but my understanding is that the fish should be just above the thermocline. It's highly doubtful there are any fish below it. I think that deep water tends to not have very much DO most of the time (except after turnover). In "my" lake, the trout could probably be from 15 to 30 feet deep depending on time of year. So that depth range x 300+ acres of water = extreme frustration.

I think the tough thing is that the trout are cruising. I've read that they move around a lot. Not like a bass (or river trout) necessarily where they get in some submerged structure and hang out there waiting for food to come by (ambush style). They are more like roaming hunters.

I know from researching what they do in Canada, trolling is really the most effective approach, and I think that's because you're trying to cover as much water as possible to increase your odds of intercepting cruising fish.

It doesn't get a lot of pressure, and I highly doubt anyone is really targeting trout there. Everybody I've talked to out on boats is fishing for bass and panfish, and they're cruising around the shore. There's a feeder by the launch and guys fish that hard. That's where most of the small trout are. At least during certain times of year.

 

[Baron]

Well I'd certainly like to hear more on this but it does depart from the fly part of my interest. I've been trying to figure out how to catch crappy 30 feet down on my fly rod and then it dawned on me that it wouldn't feel like fly fishing but more like jigging. so why not just jig with a spinning setup.