Over lining and underlining a rod?

troutbert wrote:
If you are trying rods and it doesn't cast well with the rated line, and only casts acceptably if you overline it, then don't buy it.
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There's nothing sacred about the rated line. Almost any rod will handle two or three line weights equally well. The manufacturers make a guess about who will be buying the rod, and what they're going to be using it for.

If that use happens to be casting hoppers into a bank 45 feet away into a 20mph Montana wind, it's going to get a different line rating than the same rod would be if they guessed it would that it would be used for typical eastern conditions.

Now suppose that a guy gets to go out west once a year, and needs a rod that will handle those conditions. However, his spouse would kill him if spent big bucks on a rod that just sat in the closet 51 weeks out of the year. However, the rod he's looking at casts great at short distances with a line weight one up from what's written on the rod shaft. There's no reason he shouldn't buy that rod.

Trying a rod before buying isn't necessarily going to help, either. Go to show (Somerset/Lancaster, etc) sometime and watch people trying out rods. Almost inevitably, the first thing they do strip out a lot line to see how far it casts. Casts great at 50 feet, so they buy it. They never consider how it casts with 10 feet of line out. They buy it, get it out on stream and after a few frustrating trips, somebody suggest over-lining, and lo and behold! The rod casts great again.

I'm in total agreement that you should try casting a rod before buying it if at all possible. But you need to try it a variety of distances, and with a variety of lines. Even within the same weight rating, line tapers greatly affect how a rod casts.
 
Actually, there's nothing sacred about rod rating, as it's lines that actually have an AFTM designation per their weight. For anyone really interested in this topic, the Common Cents System is worth a read. Saying rods are "rated" makes no sense, as the latest and greatest "fast action" broomstick labeled as a 5wt, is a completely different animal than most glass or cane rods labeld as a 5wt.

7. Accurately describes the situation. http://www.common-cents.info/caq.htm
 
remember you are casting the line above all else. the line is the weight. the rod is the lever imparting force upon the weight. your casting style/stroke is the mechanism through which you create that force.

typically over-lining a rod will make a rod feel slower. or in actuality it will lengthen the time it takes for the rod to move line after your casting stroke begins. in other words, it takes longer for the line to move after your hand on the rod moves because the heavier weight of the line pulling harder against the force imparted the rod.

Remember Newton's first law, that an object will remain at rest or in uniform motion in a straight line unless acted upon by an external force. in other words: the object (our line) moves according to the actions imparted upon it. likewise, our rod is another object which is both having force imparted on it and is also imparting force on yet another object (our line). the forces and actions are subject to their mass and the forces imparted upon them.

conversely, underlining a rod means the line moves more immediately because this same rod does not flex as much under less of a load and therefore is able to impart movement in the line sooner as a result.

the implications and uses of these applications are many. in general you can cast further underlining a rod but carrying a heavy fly over distance or over-coming wind may be more difficult.

it depends on what you wish to achieve.
 
Not rocket science.

Try different line weights and see how the rods casts for you.

A lighter or heavier line weight can help in situations like > long casts, short casts, casts in the wind, etc.

Realize that stripping in a few feet of line changes the amount of weight you are casting.

If you want to know how a 4wt line casts on your 5wt rod, just strip in four feet! (Approximate weight of 26' of 5wt line = 30' of 4wt line)

Line weights are a sliding scale...lol.

 
Almost inevitably, the first thing they do strip out a lot line to see how far it casts. Casts great at 50 feet, so they buy it. They never consider how it casts with 10 feet of line out.
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Why on Earth would you only cast 10ft in front of all those people? :p
 
I just can't hold back from adding to this thread. I will do so by asking two (2) questions.

1. Have you ever taken a 12' or longer leader and cast it without a rod by placing the end of the butt between your index finger and thumb?

2. When I organized rendezvous for casting instructors back in the day the rod which elicited the most controversy was the Sage TCR (I believe this was the forerunner of the TCX). Some folks could cast it fairly well and others had great difficulty. I believe the reason can be summed up in one word. And that word is.......?

3. I believe the key to both 1. and 2. above is the same word.
 
I'll take post #26 for $200 Alex. "What is technique?"

I had a TCX and could cast it but it was a horrible tool for fishing.
 
I hear a buzzer indicating an incorrect answer. Another, please?
 
Ill take a crack at #26 - What is Momentum?
 
Another buzzer... Lets go with one more. Unless you want to keep this going until someone comes in with the correct answer?
 
What is timing?

Or possibly the Kung Fu grip one popularized by GI Joe
 
Got one more... Feel/Awareness. Although that may be lumped in with timing?
 
I'll go with hauling.
 
A bit off-topic but still kind of relative, for euro style nymphing techniques weight is everything, fly line weight adds sag and drag, therefore many use level fly lines, similar to 1 wt lines on 2-3- even 4 wt rods. So reducing weight/sag/drag may be another consideration to what fly line to choose, obviously this reduces traditional style casting but is still plenty ample for short-mid range nymphing techniques.
 
Old lefty, don't leave us hanging...
 
Good casting MECHANICs will allow one to cast the vast majority of rods well...even with line weights - both up and down - from that for which the rod is labeled.

I typically fish a 2 wt. on a 4 wt. fast action rod for the majority of my fishing when the water is low and clear and I have room to cast.

I have demonstrated casting to groups using a 6 wt. rod and a 2 wt. line without having revealed this info to the group first. For average casts (up to about 60') this combo performs adequately. Interesting reaction from the group when I inform them of my tackle.
 
it's not rocket science, but it IS physics. and while I am no physics major I can tell you that the best thing for you to do is to take some casting lessons.

I want to tell you to try as many different lines as you can to see which one works best. However, if your casting mechanics are not solid you will be limited. The sad truth is that many people spend big $ on rods hoping the rod will make them cast better. Nothing will make you cast better than casting better. That comes from knowing how to cast and practicing good skills.

An $80 casting lesson will make you a better fisherman and caster than any $80 fly-line. The best part is that $80 lesson doesn't deteriorate or get re-branded every year. You get to keep it and practice it as long as you like.

disclaimer - I don't mean to imply you are a bad-caster.

Original Post:
"So if you underline or overline a rod. 1 up or down in line for what the rod recommends.
What does it do to the action?

What benefits does it have? What reason would you do it? Is it hard on the rod?

I heard of this but was never told the reasoning or purpose."

Lastly - I now remember why I choose not to get into a discussion of mechanics. The original question was about the effects of underlining and overlining. In response solely to the OP question I stand behind my earlier post. Given the same length of line but changing the weight will affect the rod as stated.

I do not want to make an assumption about the intent or purpose for the OP asking their question. I do highly recommend casting lessons to anyone who is seriously getting into the sport. We all benefit from casting instruction even and especially casting instructors!

Good luck with your experiment!
 
OldLefty wrote:

I have demonstrated casting to groups using a 6 wt. rod and a 2 wt. line without having revealed this info to the group first. For average casts (up to about 60') this combo performs adequately. Interesting reaction from the group when I inform them of my tackle.
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The question though, is do you enjoy casting such a setup? I once accidentally brought a reel with a three weight on it when fishing for smallmouth with a seven weight rod, and yes it performed adequately (and I caught a lot of fish.) It sure wasn't much fun, though. I realize that you're in a different position when demonstrating, but I'm of the view that just because I can do something doesn't necessarily mean I want to.
 
redietz wrote:
I'm of the view that just because I can do something doesn't necessarily mean I want to.
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Exactly.
 
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