Over lining a rod

[thesmayway]

I recently acquired a cabelas 5'9" cgr 3wt that I'll use almost exclusively on small native streams and in the smokies this fall. I was thinking of putting 4wt line on it to slow it down. I've never over lined a rod, can you guys share some pros and cons to doing this?

 

[gfen]

It's not a rod that needs slowing down.

 

[outsider]

Gfen, why always the cryptic answers?

Anyways, yes you can over-line a rod particularly when fishing with a short line to load the rod. Don't know a downside if it feels better when casting.

 

[bialeckij]

I was actually wondering about doing the same myself does it actually help to over line a rod?

 

[thesmayway]

Well, that's kind of what I meant. I won't really even "cast" on a lot of the streams they're so small.... Thought it might throw line a little better over lined if I'm just flipping a few feet

 

[allan_s]

Don't have any experience with that rod but I've never felt the need to over line a slow to medium action rod. I have never had a problem brook trout fishing with any rod I have ever used that had a slower action, it should load easy enough.

In reality if your just flipping a fly into the water with a couple feet of line out of the rod you won't really tell a difference. I would just try using a stiff leader with a 25 lb butt section, that should turn your flies over with just a flick of your wrist.

 

[RCFetter]

My 4wt rod feels and casts better with 5wt line. When I posted a question about this on the forum the common response was the wt rating on the rod is an approximation. I was amazed at how many people overweight the rod.

You have to test the rod with 4wt line.

 

[JackM]

Maybe Gfen's point was that one up or one down just effects how you should use and time your stroke. If over or under lining helps, who is to argue. But I wouldn't throw away a good line to do either.

 

[afishinado]

Each rod is different. As well, each fishing situation is different such as the type of fishing being done and the size of the stream fished. Try the rod with a 4wt line and see how it fishes>>>>Note: Hero casting on the lawn won't tell you much, it's best to actually rig and fish the rod and line to see if the setup works. Good luck.

 

[gfen]

JackM wrote:
Maybe Gfen's point was that one up or one down just effects how you should use and time your stroke. If over or under lining helps, who is to argue. But I wouldn't throw away a good line to do either.

Nope. My point was that its not a rod that needs slowing down, exactly as I said it.

 

[thesmayway]

ok, gfen... let me be very specific. I feel like you might have some hidden knowledge somewhere down deep....

Will I be able to make short casts more easily if I overline the rod?

I don't really want to go buy a 4wt line just to try as I typically go with a better line and don't want to buy 2... which leads to another question. Will I really benefit putting a good line like GPX on a short rod that I'll probably only cast a few feet of in most situations or should I just go cheap?

 

[ebroesicke]

for me, I would go cheap double taper. when you start to feel like it is worn out, take off and turn around. 2 lines for the price of 1. winning.

 

[Rolf]

I have a three weight I over line when fishing on very small creeks or lots of canopy. I go to a 4DT as it loads the rod sooner and quicker. It’s also easier to roll cast. I.E. I don’t need to get *** amount of line, leader and tippet out to load the rod. I can do it with much less. It all depends on the rod. I have another three weight Mike Brooks made for me out of scrap pieces of bamboo. Ugly as sin but is awesome on a small stream. No over lining necessary but is a very full flexing rod. Usually the down side of over lining is very limited distance in your casting. The rod runs out of gas if that makes any sense. YMMV so good luck.
Rolf

 

[RCFetter]

When I posted test a 4wt line I appreciated that you would not want to buy line just for a test.

An alternative is Orvis Clearwater. Their 3wt line is actually 3.5wt for $39.

Clearwater Fly Line

 

[RichFishbelt]

The short answer to overlining the rod by one weight class for casting short is yes, it should be fine, maybe better. All of the today's rods can be used with a line weight on either side of its recommended line. Rod manufacturers rate there rods for 30' casts. Therefore, overlining a rod for distances less than 30' could make casting more enjoyable. And underlining a rod might prove beneficial when casting at distances over 30'. Let's say you are fishing big water, where you need to bomb long distances and the rod feels like it is maxed out. Would it not make sense to underline the rod? Sure it would. Give it a try.

 

[RichFishbelt]

The short answer to overlining the rod by one weight class for casting short is yes, it should be fine, maybe better. All of the today's rods can be used with a line weight on either side of its recommended line. Rod manufacturers rate there rods for 30' casts. Therefore, overlining a rod for distances less than 30' could make casting more enjoyable. And underlining a rod might prove beneficial when casting at distances over 30'. Let's say you are fishing big water, where you need to bomb long distances and the rod feels like it is maxed out. Would it not make sense to underline the rod? Sure it would. Give it a try.

 

[k-bob]

as rich notes, overlining can work for short casts, because a 3w rod is made to cast the weight of about 30 feet of 3w line. when casting only 20 feet of line, that rod may work better with a 4w line. (20 ft of 4w line may weigh about as much as the 30 feet of 3w line the rod was made to cast.) works with many graphite rods, I have zero glass or bamboo experience.

 

[JackM]

Now that Gfen has disavowed my clarification of his response, I will explain further:

Rod actions and recommended weights are goals. Your casting stroke and the timing of it all determines whether you can effectively cast to your desired distance and with what amount of ease.

On any given fishing trip, you may be casting 20 feet or casting 60. If you cast farther than that, you need to use your waders-- they aren't cheap and you already own them. (Facetious). Knowing that, who uses an identical stroke and identical timing to cast 20 feet as they do to cast 60? Unless you severely mismatch the line and rod-weight rating, you ought to be able to cast effectively by changing your stroke speed and the timing of the cast.

Nonetheless, the stroke and timing will be able to vary the cast-ability of any given rod much more than a line weight or two, even, from the recommended weight. Of course if you expect to have to make an uncomfortable alteration in your stroke to compensate from some imbalance, then you should choose a line that causes your stroke to feel more comfortable. Again, I doubt one weight up or down is going to cause any serious discomfort or inability to cast effectively.

 

[pcray1231]

FWIW, you only slow down a rod, past it's designed "speed", if you overLOAD it. IMO overlining and overloading are not the same thing.

i.e. (tapers aside), if you have double the line weight, but throw half the distance, the weight you are throwing is what the rod was weighted for. Not more. It's not overloaded. It's properly loaded. If you did the same cast with the recommended line weight, you'd be underloading it.

I am a proponent of overlining rods that are specialists for small streams where casting will be nearly always fairly short. And FWIW, I'm not sure what people are calling "flipping" here. I do backcast, and more often some sort of hybrid roll/back cast which I call a "snap" cast. Think of it like a backcast but starting the forward cast way too soon, so that the line doesn't actually go behind you. And yes, the line weight makes a difference.

My main small stream rod is a 4/5 wt and I have 2 spools for it. A 5 wt and a 7 wt. The 5 wt gets used for the larger, more open small streams where you might be casting 20+ ft frequently. The 7 wt gets used on the really small, thick spots. That's 2.5 line weights over the rating!!!! I think it helps a lot. Just be aware of what you have on there when you do come to that huge, wide open pool where you can really open up with long casts. Now, yes, that extra line weight becomes a disadvantage.

 

[RCFetter]

Another great analysis pcray.
Thanks. My 4 wt is 7' so that explains why I like 5wt line on it.