Nymphing: Strikes and Hook Sets?

[Mike_Emanuele]

The more I advance with fly fishing, the more analytical I become from the macro to the micro aspects of the sport. Nymphing is what I decided to focus on when I first started (2 years ago) and after feeling confident in my abilities I've slowly switched over into fishing without an indicator (tight, high sticking,..etc). The more fish I caught the more questions I had about hook sets while nymph fishing. I noticed that somedays strikes would be vicious and the hooks would be firmly planted in the mouth. The hook set would be a split second reaction on my part and it would be a high percentage rate. Somedays I noticed that a strike would require an almost delayed hook set to ensure a solid hook up, then sometimes (like my recent trip to Penns) there would be no "real strike" and any type of indication would require a slow straight "lift" hook set for a hook up (and even then there would be a second delay for the fish to realize he was hooked).
What do you feel causes these days? Do certain bugs bring about different reactions? Does time of day effect feeding habits? Also what can your hook placement tell you about (what you need to change)? Is a trout that is foul hooked in the body a result of a too slow or too fast hook set?
Thanks guys, don't be too hard on me if some of these questions sound stupid, I'm just curious to get some insight from more experienced anglers. Thanks! - Mike

 

[pete41]

I would tend to suspect completion between the fish in many cases.. about like dining alone or fighting your bratty kid sister for the last French fries.

 

[pete41]

Foul hooked-probably last minute refusal where trout disturbed nymph enough to cause you to react.Just a guess but as a streamer fisherman I got a kick out of tail hooked suckers-They can out run a rainbow for the first 25 yards anyway.

 

[ryansheehan]

Mike_Emanuele wrote:
The more I advance with fly fishing, the more analytical I become from the macro to the micro aspects of the sport. Nymphing is what I decided to focus on when I first started (2 years ago) and after feeling confident in my abilities I've slowly switched over into fishing without an indicator (tight, high sticking,..etc). The more fish I caught the more questions I had about hook sets while nymph fishing. I noticed that somedays strikes would be vicious and the hooks would be firmly planted in the mouth. The hook set would be a split second reaction on my part and it would be a high percentage rate. Somedays I noticed that a strike would require an almost delayed hook set to ensure a solid hook up, then sometimes (like my recent trip to Penns) there would be no "real strike" and any type of indication would require a slow straight "lift" hook set for a hook up (and even then there would be a second delay for the fish to realize he was hooked).
What do you feel causes these days? Do certain bugs bring about different reactions? Does time of day effect feeding habits? Also what can your hook placement tell you about (what you need to change)? Is a trout that is foul hooked in the body a result of a too slow or too fast hook set?
Thanks guys, don't be too hard on me if some of these questions sound stupid, I'm just curious to get some insight from more experienced anglers. Thanks! - Mike

I would examine the different ways you are rigged up and how much contact you have with your nymphs. When tight lining (or whatever you want to call it) that makes a big difference. The better contact you have the more "vicious " the takes can seem. Your rigging can play a huge part in that, if you drop a small midge 18 inches off the back of weight and a heavy nymph it's impossible to maintain contact with the midge, no matter how good your technique. However just like dry flies trout do eat bugs differently. So basically I don't have an answer just some thoughts. Not so sure anyone has the answer, so it's definitely not a stupid question.

 

[fishingood]

It will all depend on your preferences.

FiI believe it is beneficial to get rid of the indicator. There will be a time and place to use these, but there is no substitute for good ole' fashioned technique, and the more "junk" (indicators, split shot, swivels, knots, etc) you have on your line, the harder it will be to get a good drift, which can be the difference between catching and not.

With that said, in addition to feeling for strikes, and this may be the bass guy in me, but it's also very beneficial to watch your line during the drift, and just watch for it to jump of stop, and then lift with a smooth and firm enough set, that you'd be able to hook a fish, yet not so hard that you're trying to stop a freight train. When it stops, you either have a fish, or stuck on the bottom.

Now, for your questions in bold, I don't think there are any set answers, it will depend on a number of factors. Including if the fish is feeding, or just a reaction strike, weather, number of bugs, etc. While I don't condone purposely snagging, I know a steelhead guide who once said "if you aint snagging fish, you aren't getting deep enough." This is true, and if you snag a fish, it can mean that you are close to the fish, but it didnt take, or even that (especially if you are fishing a tandem/ multi fly rig) it went for one of your flies and missed.

 

[evw659]

The more I advance with fly fishing, the more analytical I become from the macro to the micro aspects of the sport. Nymphing is what I decided to focus on when I first started (2 years ago) and after feeling confident in my abilities I've slowly switched over into fishing without an indicator (tight, high sticking,..etc). The more fish I caught the more questions I had about hook sets while nymph fishing. I noticed that somedays strikes would be vicious and the hooks would be firmly planted in the mouth. The hook set would be a split second reaction on my part and it would be a high percentage rate. Somedays I noticed that a strike would require an almost delayed hook set to ensure a solid hook up, then sometimes (like my recent trip to Penns) there would be no "real strike" and any type of indication would require a slow straight "lift" hook set for a hook up (and even then there would be a second delay for the fish to realize he was hooked).
What do you feel causes these days? Do certain bugs bring about different reactions? Does time of day effect feeding habits? Also what can your hook placement tell you about (what you need to change)? Is a trout that is foul hooked in the body a result of a too slow or too fast hook set?
Thanks guys, don't be too hard on me if some of these questions sound stupid, I'm just curious to get some insight from more experienced anglers. Thanks! - Mike

In my opinion, the behavior and feeding patterns of wild browns depends a lot of variables. The fishery itself is a big factor in my opinion. Comparing penns to the little j for example, I have found penns much more difficult overall in regards to how aggressively the fish feed. However, penns has much a greater diversity and density of macros, so maybe that is why, but to me that doesn't fundamentally answer why penns is so finicky. I feel like your questions are the ones that don't have a simple, fundamental answer but are very interesting to think about, though you may end up experiencing "paralysis by analysis".

 

[Chaz]

I believe It's very dependent on water temperature, but it probably also relates to how well the trout have been feeding. I had a recent outing when the trout were taking dries and they were gently taking the flies at the surface. This meant you had to make sure you struck, I didn't have to strike hard, but I had to strike. Freestone trout usually strike hard and hook themselves, but not that day.

 

[krayfish2]

Chas beat me to the temp aspect of the equation. Temps may directly impact how 'actively' the fish feed. In colder temps, the fish may not move very far and suck in only what floats near their mouth resulting in subtitle takes. During warmer periods, the fish more actively move for perceived food which may feel like a bone jarring hit.

The other thing I'd take notice to was the insects hatching (if any). Some nymphs are decent swimmers and others are more along the lines of dead drifters. A fish feeding on March Brown or Slate Drake nymphs may take more aggressively due to the mobility of the bug. Just a thought.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

My own observation:

I also believe it depends on whether a Low front is approaching, is upon us, or has just passed. What ever they call it barametric pressure.

Prior to a low front- - Trout tend to hit harder as they seam to be more aggresively eating in anticipation of the pressure change. When the front is upon us - things slow down tremendously. often times I go out just to face a difficult challenge. When the low has passed it usually takes several hours and even days when it seams trout will begin feeding again.

Another factor I feel important is sun placement.

 

[pcray1231]

The differences between strikes: Largely to do with how the fish takes the fly (duh!).

If a fish is sitting in a feeding lane, often in slower water, it'll sample stuff floating by, but not move far for it. Grab a morsel, determine it's not food, spit it out, grab another, determine it's food, take it, without ever really moving. Those are your situations where there's no real "strike", hits are hard to identify, and hooksets need to be immediate and upward. This would generally be smaller flies that they don't move to much, or just things in the drift. Midge larva. Cressbugs that became dislodged. Egg patterns.

If the nymphs are above the fish, and the fish rises (though not the whole way to the surface), then during the take it's facing the surface and an upward hookset will pull it right out of it's mouth. You can either set in a downstream direction (to the back of the fish), or else wait for the fish to turn down with it (like dry flies, mutter "God Save the Queen" before striking). This is a common situation with, for instance, hatching sulphers. As they are swimming nymphs that go towards the surface just before hatching, like schooling minnows high in the water column, and fish key into this.

If a fish picks it off the bottom, it's facing down, and upward hooksets are good, though downstream isn't bad! This would be common for when bottom bouncing clinging mayfly nymphs, stoneflies, caddis, pupa, etc.

Then you get situations where a fish darts to the side to pick off a nymph. Often on current breaks, where the fish is in slack water but watching a nearby current and darting in to pick off things, then back out. If the movement is towards you, that's tough, as it's easy to pull it out of his mouth. Best bet is a downstream set, or wait for it to turn back. If the movement is away from you your odds are improved greatly.

If a fish chases it downstream, this is when hits tend to be intense, rod bending affairs. Honestly, there's not a lot you can do. They either hook themselves or they don't. Streamers certainly fit the bill. As will something like a March Brown approaching hatching. As they are sizable clinging nymphs that inhabit heavy flows, as they make their way to shorelines to hatch, they may become dislodged in the heavy currents. By the time a fish reacts it's often already by them, but they will chase them down.

So a function of fly, how the natural acts, how aggressive the fish is and thus how much it'll move for a fly (which is water temperature as well as food dependent, as a well fed fish after a very small fly just won't be willing to move much).

Anyway, a common theme here is that there are commonalities. Detecting strikes. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it isn't, but keeping good line control and focus will always help, not hurt. Likewise, in most situations, a downstream strike is among the better of the options. So if you just forget about the minutia, practice good line control and focus and get better at detecting all kinds of strikes, and get in a habit of always setting in a downstream direction, it will go a long ways.

A foul hooked fish when dead drift nymphing often wasn't trying to eat at all, you just lined it, so it doesn't tell you much. On the other hand, a foul hooked fish after chasing a fly, or on a dry fly, usually indicates a last minute refusal rather than a late hookset. i.e. more about presentation.

 

[mcneishm]

The best advice and the thing that has worked most consistently for me fishing nymphs, which is what I fish about 75% of the time, is that if the line stops, either you have a strike or the bottom. More often than not, it's the bottom (depending on how you're fishing) but always attempt to "set" the hook. Typically for me setting the hook just means upward or sideward pressure rather than a hard set. If you're fishing without a lot of line on the water, if it is a fish, it will often hook itself. In terms of recognizing a strike, sometimes I just "know" it's a fish, even if the line has not stopped (maybe it has but only barely and not enough for it to register much); 55+ years of doing it gives me an intuitive feel that I cannot otherwise explain.

 

[krayfish2]

Pat,
No offense but your post made me scream. Set downstream, set the opposite direction the fish is facing, blah, blah. What if you are fishing deep water and can't see the fish? What if you are fishing at distance and can't see the fish? Fishing the discharge ditch at Paradise, you assessment might hold true.

You also stated that foul hooked fish were refusals. Some are. In my experience, a lot of those are fish that took the offering and it went undetected. As soon as the fish recognize it's not food, they spit it. Your line is probably tighter than when they initially took the fly. That's when the angler notices that something is up and sets hook. I've also seen it often where a fish takes the bottom fly on a double nymph rig. The top fly ends up getting embedded in the fish (side or tail during the fight) and the fly in the mouth come loose.

If you are tight lining or leading your nymphs down river, strike in the direction your rod is already moving. Using an indi? Gentle set at ANY abnormal movement of the indi. Slack line nymphing with unweighted nymphs or higher in water column? Watch the leader. If you can't see the fish (and you can't most of the time), lift rod tip when line pauses and you'll hook fish. Over thinking this will only confuse. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[troutbert]

When you think there's a take, set the hook. Right away. That's all.

I don't think delaying the strike ever makes sense.

It's true that trout sometimes "hammer" nymphs, and sometimes take them lightly. That's just a difference in feeding behavior.

But I don't think it makes any difference regarding how you set the hook.