Nothing is sacred

Agreed. If you had ranted about neanderthal litterers, or neanderthal deep hookers, you'd have a lot of support here. Instead you chose to attribute those characteristics to 90% of the angling public, and further attempt to say that they should stay on stocked streams (when wild streams already see many more baitfishermen than flyfishermen).

Yes, there are some a-holes among the bait fishing crowd, and you experienced one of them. Rail on him all you want. But a much larger number of of them are good, conservation minded anglers like ourselves, and fly fishing isn't without it's a-holes either. Anger is not a sufficient excuse to throw reason out the window.

I was a bait guy for many years, still do it on occasion. I have close friends and family who just bait fish. They don't knowingly litter, they do show up to stream cleanups and such. And after they learned how to avoid deep hooking, I haven't seen them hook a fish deep in years. The 10% that are idiots shouldn't reflect on the whole anymore than the 5% of fly fishers that are idiots should reflect on us.
 
This quite honestly might be the dumbest comment I have ever read on this website, and the exact reason why I stopped visiting this site for a long time, and after I am done typing this, I am going to delete myself as a member.
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i don't see much liter at all on the streams i fish , in the last 3 months , spring creek , brookie streams , little sandy , neshanock ,. oil , little pine , sugar etc, the most garbage i ever saw was last year on a section of FFO water on little sandy , i am not sure if bait guys snuck in there one day or evening and litered it up or if it was fly guys , but i can't say who it was cause i didn't see them doing it , but it didn't make the fly fishing guys look good for sure !
 
Wow this guy just got torn to pieces. I believe that his goal in this post was to express his discontent with the disrespect of a stream that is very dear to him. I agree that his word choice could have been more thought out, but when you see two wild trout dead due to the carelessness of a bait fisherman, I can understand where he is coming from. However that is no excuse. Lets let the lesson be learned now. Just do the right thing and pick up the trash, that shows that you care about the stream more than ranting does. If you do your part to keep a stream healthy, and cover the next guy's back (even if he is a bait fisherman) the stream will heal itsself.

A fun fact for ya is that 50% of a streams trout population dies every year and its rejuvenated just as it dies off. Its a cycle
 
I saw no proof in his post as to what killed the fish. Some fish die after stocking from shock, some fish get nabbed by a heron, only to escape but not without fatal wounds. Some fish eat stuff they shouldn't, like cigarette butts tossed in the stream (and NO, it's not just baitfisherman that do that! I've witnessed Flyfisherman doing on numerous occasions and yes I said something to them). So anything could have caused their death. I agree he had every right to be sickened by what he saw, but still, to label baitfishermen as the culprits is wrong.
 
ah, ok. How do you guys really feel about me taking my waders back to Cabela's???? Wow this thread makes me look good.....
 
i am sorry if i was harsh on the guy but be honest kids will throw anything in a creek. Rocks bait containers anything.

I respect oppionions when they are oppinions based on fact not prejudice. I am all about equal access for everybody. Fishing is fishing when taken with a hook a line.

I dont think that i am better than anyone because i use a fly rod or flies. This guy definetly thought he was. I will not appologize to him. I am holding my ground.
 
mike_richardson wrote:
i am sorry if i was harsh on the guy but be honest kids will throw anything in a creek. Rocks bait containers anything.

I respect oppionions when they are oppinions based on fact not prejudice. I am all about equal access for everybody. Fishing is fishing when taken with a hook a line.

I dont think that i am better than anyone because i use a fly rod or flies. This guy definetly thought he was. I will not apologize to him. I am holding my ground.
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\

No need to apologize. I think most of us agree to one extent or another.
 
simplefish wrote:
Well then, I guess I am an ***. If getting upset about that kind of stuff makes me an ***, then Im the biggest one in the bunch.
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I admire a man who can wear the *** badge with pride!


I tip my cap to you.
 
Geez.... I'm gonna have a problem this weekend. I intend to both bait fish and fly fish. So at some point, I'm going to be bait fishing and littering my *** off, then pick up a fly rod and have to go around and pick up my own trash. That could really cut into my fly fishing time. Unless of course I fly fish first, then in that case........ah it's all too confusing.
 
I fish open waters around me on a regular basis, I DO notice more litter on the open water than the spec reg water. I pick up used bait containers almost every time I fish my fav little section of the slippery rock, also beer cans, pop cans, broken lawn chairs, etc. (I've almost filled my van with litter a few times).
yes, to say all bait fishermen are pigs is wrong, the majority are just good folks out for a good time and enjoying the outdoors and doing things right, but I think the percentage of bad apples may be greater within the bait fisher crowd than the fly crowd. before you all get in a hissy fit, I've seen quite a few ****** fly fishers as well!.
yes, simplefish was quick to label all baitfishermen pigs, but the bottom line was likely some buffoon was gut-hooking little fish, getting pissed off, ripping the hook out of their bodies and leaving the little guys to die, being an idiot by not realizing that in a year or two these would be really nice fish.
no wonder some folks don't like to name streams. some of those kinds of folks are lurking here.
again, I've got nothing against bait guys, spin guys,or even those (dreaded!!) centerpinners, it's the selfish,backward, ignorant a-holes that I'm against, no matter what gear they use.
 
Just because you take up FF'n doesn't make you a conservationist...and just cause people bait fish it doesn't make them litter bugs. It's the person doing the littering not the rod. And if someone deletes their account because of people have an opinion of their opinion....
 
Whats helped me with these situations is understanding that most times its kid/teenagers. I wasnt exactly a little darling myself. Next would be inexperience. I can also relate to this as it took me some time to fall in love with the outdoors as much as I am, and really notice how far out of place litter is in the woods. No matter what my crappy neighborhood looked like.
Simplefish, for you to run off rather than stick to your guns and meet in the middle or come to an understanding.....maybe you arent that passionate about it in the first place. Its not like you dont have any point at all. Just needs adjusted.
 
I would think being called an *** right out of the box might do it...
I've picked up one helluva lot more worm containers than Fly stuff over the years...
 
But being told that you sound like one?

It's an important distinction, especially when it's true.

I'd take *** over neanderthal any day. An *** stinks, but neanderthals are extinct!

Your argument doesn't change anything. It still doesn't make sense to say that bait fishermen are all pigs. It's just not true.
 
So Jay, your correlation toward the poster being an *** sounds hypocritical and stereotypical all at the same time. I thought you meant *** as in ignorant, stubborn or stupid like a mule. When here all along you meant stinky like a butt. I think you need to research your insults before serving them.

If its bait that is littered then to me, saying the baitfishers littered, or littering baitfishers is not over the top. Calling them neanderthals though, well, was there even letter in that age? I think not! So perhaps he was more ignorant than assinine.

You could have insulted the initial poster by calling him ignorant rather than generalizing with ***......which insults me BTW, being I am an *** quite often.

As it appears, your mission is accomplished....ya stired another turd.
 
I intended the mule one.

I admit to bastardizing the original meaning for the sake of making a bad joke. Guilty as charged. In my defense, mules do stink.
 
The 50% rule usually holds true on larger streams such as limestoners. When you are talking about small mountain streams they are more delicate. If a small brookie stream for example is heavily pressured, the fishing and trout numbers can suffer. With the rate at which trout reach maturity the fishery will still exist, but in lower numbers. when you are bait fishing for six inch fish with a size 10 or 12 barbed hook the mortality rate is very high. Even though there are fish killed by fly fisherman a person using a size 16 barbless dry will kill much less than a person with a size 12. I've even seen people use trebles for brookies. :-o One thing that really irks me is when they rip the hook out of the throat and throw them back in the water. The bait chucker "catch and release" method. This doesn't apply to all spin fishermen but small wild trout aren't exactly the best thing to target with live bait. Onto the topic of keeping trout, in some small streams a few people can nearly destroy an entire year class of trout. This results in less spawners and less YOY trout. Trout have enough problems already with AMD, siltation, and the oncoming shale drilling onslaught. I think it would be a fairly good idea to lighten their load a little.

Tight lines!
 
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