NO!!!! Ya think?

[osprey]

Did any of you folks happen to heard the news lately that the companies that are doing the Marcellus thing have decided to convert their equipment to natural gas powered engines because it would be cheaper? God help us!!!!

 

[franklin]

osprey wrote:
Did any of you folks happen to heard the news lately that the companies that are doing the Marcellus thing have decided to convert their equipment to natural gas powered engines because it would be cheaper? God help us!!!!

This is a bad thing?

 

[osprey]

No Frank but don't YA THINK THEY WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT BEFORE!!!!!!

 

[MHanes]

Its cost driven a couple years ago this was not cost effective but with the drop in natural gas prices and the increase is gas it becomes economical. Really its a positive thing just for the fact that natural gas burns a lot cleaner and and has cleaner emissions.

I hope you see a move to natural gas powered cars in the future.

 

[osprey]

Don't misunderstand me i think converting engines used to obtain natural gas to natural gas operation is a GREAT idea i just don't understand why it took so long and was such a profound revelation.

 

[franklin]

If you ever get into the detailed lists of EPA violations at drilling sites there area a fair number that are related to fuel spills. If these could be eliminated or significantly reduced it would have a greater near term positive impact on local streams than the CO2/global warming improvements.

 

[osprey]

I live in an area in WP that has had access to natural gas since the 40's , before , "long" before i was even born. For a long time the local provider was Peoples Natural Gas , you had no choice of provider back then , like supposedly you do now , anyhow their whole fleet of trucks was operated on natural gas , after all , they owned it all , so it was more or less free. It just strikes me as frightening to think that this proposed conversion is such a profound revelation to these so called geniuses. It's their product , why is it surprising that it would be better all around to power your fleet with it??????

 

[franklin]

osprey wrote:
I live in an area in WP that has had access to natural gas since the 40's , before , "long" before i was even born. For a long time the local provider was Peoples Natural Gas , you had no choice of provider back then , like supposedly you do now , anyhow their whole fleet of trucks was operated on natural gas , after all , they owned it all , so it was more or less free. It just strikes me as frightening to think that this proposed conversion is such a profound revelation to these so called geniuses. It's their product , why is it surprising that it would be better all around to power your fleet with it??????

It's a good solution for short haul delivery trucks but not for long haul equipment. Also great for stationary equipment they often have at well sites. Pumps, generators, etc.

 

[pcray1231]

I was gonna say, the gas company's, like People's, have LONG used natural gas as the fuel of choice. In fleet vehicles and such.

Really, any vehicle which has a "home base", and does not travel out of range of that base, often use gas. Bus systems and so forth.

But it was unfeasible for any vehicles which travelled large distances and would need to refuel away from their base. It's not available at enough fueling points, and if it has to be bought on the free market, it wasn't that much cheaper than gasoline anyway. That's changing, as natural gas remains cheap and gasoline is getting more expensive.

 

[McSneek]

Natural gas vehicles are increasing in popularity with approximately 30 U.S. manufacturers producing close to 100 models of engines for use in light-, medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. There are 120,000 NGVs operating in the U.S. and that number is growing. One of the most important aspects of the success of NGVs is access to fuel. Today there are an estimated 1,000 NGV fueling stations in the U.S. and half of those are open to the general public.

NGVs have a higher octane rating, are more fuel efficient, have lower operating costs and produce fewer emissions than gasoline or diesel engines.

Federal and state incentives, including grants for public transportation vehicles, are helping to make natural gas vehicles a more affordable and eco-friendly option.

 

[vcregular]

It seems to make way too much sense for me to be able to hook up my nat gas vehicle to a hose in my garage that fills it with nat gas. The same nat gas that heats my house and lights my stove. Is what powers my house, different than what could power a vehicle? Anyone know that answer?

LEts do that before we start shipping it over seas.

 

[pcray1231]

It's the same stuff. Several models are already available, including the Honda Civic and all of the full size trucks, I think. And home filling stations are available too. If you want to go that route, go get it, you can do it right now, you don't have to wait for anybody.

Though in vehicles, it's very highly compressed, not exactly like the line in your house. The home filling stations I know of aren't compressors, they are storage tanks with car hook ups. You have to call someone to come fill it, who comes in truck like a propane truck. And it can take hours to fill your home storage tank. Once compressed, though, it is very quick to fill your car from that tank.

I don't know if you could get a compressor like that to take it directly from your gas line, or if you'd have to wade a mountain of government regulation to do something like that, considering the dangers of compressing natural gas from a line that is connected to everybody else's house. Compressor breaks and everyone gets a BIG spike in pressure, hehe. As it is, only about 50% of homes have gas lines anyway, so it's never been seen as a mass solution.

As far as cars themselves, the gas tanks can't be shaped like a gasoline tank, and in order to get respectable range, have to be huge. In a civic, for instance, you lose pretty much your whole trunk, and still get a range of only about 200 miles.

 

[osprey]

PCray...........I don't know where Thorndale is but from reading your posts i'm gonna assume it's in the Eastern part of Pa , where you say the availability of household natural gas is limited to around 40%. In the western part of Pa , i'm not sure but i'd bet it's more available than 40%. My thoughts are not of personal , home based filling units , but more along the line of Peoples and any of the other providers that run their engines on Natural gas also making filling stations for cars available along the route of the pipelines. It would create some employment also. The purpose of the OP was to point out the lack of common sense of some of the providers and their sudden revelation that they should switch to natural gas.

 

[pcray1231]

Osprey, I grew up in western PA, but yes, Thorndale is in Eastern PA. My parents (western PA) have gas. My wife is from outside of Clearfied, and here family doesn't have gas either, they use coal. And we don't have gas here where I live. We have a heat pump and a propane stove which is capable of heating the whole house and used when the mercury falls below 30 or so, with a 1000 gallon propane tank sitting outside. The 50ish percent figure I gave was a nationwide average. It's about half of the homes have a gas line to them, half don't. Of course, it's nearly 100% in some areas, and nearly 0% in others.

My point was that it isn't a sudden revelation. For most of the providers, it was not the best business practice for many years. A few things have changed that just recently. Namely, a rise in the price of gasoline, a fall in the price of natural gas, more commonly available engines that can handle gas, and a more widespread distribution system. Remember, their fleets don't just operate in their home areas.

 

[CRB]

no road tax at the pump and our great gov. wants to raise gas taxes by .25 per gal.

 

[Gudgeonville]

There are a couple different issues here. The first is the OP's question of the rigs running on natural gas. This is pretty much a logistics problem. You have to have a supply of natural gas that can be piped to the rig. For infield drilling where pipeline quality well gas is available that's not an issue. If we are not close to that then running a long pipeline to a temporary drilling rig is an issue, although one that we are preparing to do soon. My vehicle is a bi fuel pickup truck. Runs on CNG and gasoline. I have 3 public fueling stations between Pgh and Washington, PA. There is 1 in State College that I used on Wednesday. The 2, 10 gal tanks take up almost half of my 8' pickup bed. With the high pressure filling stations it takes about 5 - 10 mins to fill up. Low pressure home units would need to be hooked up overnight.
Not perfect yet but the vehicle is simple to fill and runs great on CNG. no problems.
I understand that Sheetz, Giant Eagle are looking into placing a CNG system at their stations.
This all takes time, money and a commitment. The current negative attitude to drilling by the anti's and the over regulation by both DEP and now the EPA does put some doubt/concern in the minds of the folks that will need to front the costs of setting up a massive distribution system.

 

[jeff]

Gudgeonville wrote:


This all takes time, money and a commitment. The current negative attitude to drilling by the anti's and the over regulation by both DEP and now the EPA does put some doubt/concern in the minds of the folks that will need to front the costs of setting up a massive distribution system.

Now that there is funny :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[sdwaters]

Can they use it "direct from the well" or does it require some processing?

 

[Chaz]

My question is when do we get vehicles that run on Natural Gas? They are drilling on land that we all own and we haven't yet been able to take advantage of the wealth of gas, why don't we get to share in the wealth in the form of cheap energy?

 

[troutbert]

You can buy a Honda Civic that runs on natural gas.