Chaz
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If they force people to pay a fee to fish, they also have to enforce the regs, and patrol it 24/7.
pcray1231
Well-known member
Dave's right. The law is that if you see anything indicating you can't be there, you can't be there. There are guidelines for landowners. i.e. it is a valid defense if you entered the property and did not see any signs, hence the guidelines for landowners use on spacing, etc. which prevent this from happening. But for you, if you see just 1 single sign, you know you can't go on that property. If you don't know his boundaries, well, it's on YOU to figure them out, as it is publicly available information.
Hey, Donny Beaver did just that! (as do many other landowners on public streams throughout the state).
pcray1231
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Good one!
PatrickC
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Hey Dave, it's official...you're right ;-)
FarmerDave
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PatrickC, We need to make it up there in the near future, but I'm not opposed to buying an Ohio license, either.
Just don't make fun of my old waders, either.;-)
This weekend is probably out anyway. Got work to do on the farm.
Just don't make fun of my old waders, either.;-)
This weekend is probably out anyway. Got work to do on the farm.
PatrickC
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This weekend is out anyway....I'll be in MI. 11 crazy people (most of whom are actually from PA) are going on a trip I'm hosting on Pere Marquette. So, not next week, but starting the week after that if it rains....we'll see if we can make it happen. You know how to reach me ;-)
Ain't worried about them old waders :-D
FarmerDave
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Don't test me. I think I still have an old pair of neoprene waders with the patch on the left cheek. :lol:
FarmerDave
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I just remembered, I might be using the smoke pole this weekend instead of the bamboo pole.
D
dano
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It's not a done deal. At least not yet.
streamerguy
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First of all, as many of you already may know, NEVER trust anything you read on the FishErie website. But...
I've been following this thread a little bit, and some are saying that one of the shops could be behind it. Chances are it's not true(the bait shop part), and like I said never trust everything on that site. Just throwing it out there....
I've been following this thread a little bit, and some are saying that one of the shops could be behind it. Chances are it's not true(the bait shop part), and like I said never trust everything on that site. Just throwing it out there....
pcray1231
Well-known member
Have to agree with the comment that said "all private water = nursery water with no fishing. There's your fix".
Really, I fully understand that landowners have to put up with a lot of crap there. And I fully understand and support their decision to post for that reason.
I cannot support the ones who post to achieve a private fishery, for profit or personal enjoyment. They ain't wild. Those are publicly stocked and paid for fish. If the public wasn't paying, there wouldn't be fish.
What % of each are there? I don't know. All of them claim to be of the first variety, but with the money in leasing to guides and so forth, I just don't know. But they are public fish, and the PFBC has every right to prevent fishing on private land. I say they do it. Landowners still have a right to post. It's just that if they do post, NOBODY fishes that section.
Yeah, it'll start a war. If you didn't notice, there's already a war going on for the Erie tribs.
Really, I fully understand that landowners have to put up with a lot of crap there. And I fully understand and support their decision to post for that reason.
I cannot support the ones who post to achieve a private fishery, for profit or personal enjoyment. They ain't wild. Those are publicly stocked and paid for fish. If the public wasn't paying, there wouldn't be fish.
What % of each are there? I don't know. All of them claim to be of the first variety, but with the money in leasing to guides and so forth, I just don't know. But they are public fish, and the PFBC has every right to prevent fishing on private land. I say they do it. Landowners still have a right to post. It's just that if they do post, NOBODY fishes that section.
Yeah, it'll start a war. If you didn't notice, there's already a war going on for the Erie tribs.
ryguyfi
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IMO someone saw what the DSR did on the Salmon River in NY and they saw an opportunity to do the same in PA. I've fished outside and inside the DSR the last 2 seasons and see a big advantage in fishing their property and have paid to do so. It's $50 a day this year.
Now in regards to PA, unless everything was posted I wouldn't pay to fish a specific stretch of water. There's fish everywhere and there's a big difference between steelhead, which stay all winter, and salmon, which die off after spawning. So in NY they have the advantage of seeing the freshest fish in the DSR. $80 is steep no matter how you dice it, but I wouldn't doubt people would pay it to get "away from the crowds". I think these tackle shops are getting themselves into trouble if they're involved because it's the regular Joe's that spend all the money there, not the guys who can afford $80 a day. Also if any rumors are true of other property, or even campgrounds coming into this agreement then it will get really messy.
Now in regards to PA, unless everything was posted I wouldn't pay to fish a specific stretch of water. There's fish everywhere and there's a big difference between steelhead, which stay all winter, and salmon, which die off after spawning. So in NY they have the advantage of seeing the freshest fish in the DSR. $80 is steep no matter how you dice it, but I wouldn't doubt people would pay it to get "away from the crowds". I think these tackle shops are getting themselves into trouble if they're involved because it's the regular Joe's that spend all the money there, not the guys who can afford $80 a day. Also if any rumors are true of other property, or even campgrounds coming into this agreement then it will get really messy.
D
dano
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Under 58 Pa. Code §67.2 (relating to refuge areas), the Executive Director of the Fish and
Boat Commission (Commission), with the approval of the Commission, may designate waters as
refuge areas to which section 2306 of the Fish and Boat Code, 30 Pa. C.S. §2306 (relating to refuge
areas), shall apply. Section 2306 provides that the Commission may set aside, in its discretion, such
areas as it may judge best as refuge areas in which fishing or entry shall be prohibited for such
periods of time as the Commission prescribes. According to the regulation, the designation of waters
as refuge areas shall be effective upon posting of the waters after publication of a notice that the
waters have been so designated in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.
Boat Commission (Commission), with the approval of the Commission, may designate waters as
refuge areas to which section 2306 of the Fish and Boat Code, 30 Pa. C.S. §2306 (relating to refuge
areas), shall apply. Section 2306 provides that the Commission may set aside, in its discretion, such
areas as it may judge best as refuge areas in which fishing or entry shall be prohibited for such
periods of time as the Commission prescribes. According to the regulation, the designation of waters
as refuge areas shall be effective upon posting of the waters after publication of a notice that the
waters have been so designated in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.
geebee
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Ry - i think you'll see more float guides and arguments about 'touching bottom' like out west. and of course more boat traffic around the mouths.
ryguyfi
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Elk creek isn't navigable as far as I know, so the "stay below the high watermark and you're ok" doesn't apply. In low/normal flows you can't float a rubber ducky down parts of elk creek let alone a raft.
The rule/law you posted will only screw over those who are posting the property. Basically the Fish Comish can call that private stretch of water as nursery waters and NO ONE can fish it. Basically like the waters on Crooked Creek and Trout Run. Just basically saying that if a private group of people want to profit from public funds then the state can tell them to sit on it and deem the posted waters as nursery waters.
The rule/law you posted will only screw over those who are posting the property. Basically the Fish Comish can call that private stretch of water as nursery waters and NO ONE can fish it. Basically like the waters on Crooked Creek and Trout Run. Just basically saying that if a private group of people want to profit from public funds then the state can tell them to sit on it and deem the posted waters as nursery waters.
D
dano
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The area has to actually be used by fish as a nursery water for a section to get the nursery water designation.
fishingood
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Heard about this over on FishErie, of course over there you can't say anything without having to verbally sparr with people.
But it is very unfortunate. And, it's just a reminder (I don't fully know what the situation is, or if this played a part in it, or if it's for sheer profit), but, much of the fishable streambed up there is on lands that are privately owned, but opened to public fishing through courtesy of the landowner(s), and permission can be withdrawn at anytime. In order to avoid this, it is important to follow common courtesy, only keep the fish you intend to eat, clean up after yourself and others, walk/ park/ drive only on designated or permitted areas, thank the land owner if you see them, and act as you would want a guest in your own home to act.
Again, I'm not familiar with the situation, I'm not trying to accuse anyone or any party, and I don't know if any of what I said played a part in the decision to post the previously mentioned section of Elk. But it is a good reminder, and I've seen it before, people leaving beer cans on the bank, relieving themselves within view of others, and parking in areas that block land access, and before you know it, the area is posted.
But it is very unfortunate. And, it's just a reminder (I don't fully know what the situation is, or if this played a part in it, or if it's for sheer profit), but, much of the fishable streambed up there is on lands that are privately owned, but opened to public fishing through courtesy of the landowner(s), and permission can be withdrawn at anytime. In order to avoid this, it is important to follow common courtesy, only keep the fish you intend to eat, clean up after yourself and others, walk/ park/ drive only on designated or permitted areas, thank the land owner if you see them, and act as you would want a guest in your own home to act.
Again, I'm not familiar with the situation, I'm not trying to accuse anyone or any party, and I don't know if any of what I said played a part in the decision to post the previously mentioned section of Elk. But it is a good reminder, and I've seen it before, people leaving beer cans on the bank, relieving themselves within view of others, and parking in areas that block land access, and before you know it, the area is posted.
bikerfish
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if it gets too screwed up, I'll just skip fishing for the damned giant stockies period. Sure they're big, but not worth that much trouble. I'd rather hike to a remote mtn trout stream anyways than deal the circus anyways.
I just don't get all excited about an artificial fishery, no matter how big the fish get.
I just don't get all excited about an artificial fishery, no matter how big the fish get.
StarvinMarvin
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I would rather go to NY at this point anyway.
PatrickC
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While I agree with your sentiment about mountain streams Biker...every trout fishery in PA is an artificial fishery. Those spectacular native brook char are the only non-contrived salmonid fishery in PA.
Sadly the more property that becomes posted, the greater the circus will become.
Ryan, as you know, there is already posted property on Elk that is being used for profit. The Fish Commission has not set that precedent on the property Beaver leases, Gudgeonville, or any of the others. While this may motivate them to work harder to get an easement for that property, they are not going to make it nursery water.
At this point, the appropriate people have been made aware of the situation. Let's just hope there is a swift resolve.
Sadly the more property that becomes posted, the greater the circus will become.
Ryan, as you know, there is already posted property on Elk that is being used for profit. The Fish Commission has not set that precedent on the property Beaver leases, Gudgeonville, or any of the others. While this may motivate them to work harder to get an easement for that property, they are not going to make it nursery water.
At this point, the appropriate people have been made aware of the situation. Let's just hope there is a swift resolve.
