Need some pointers

[08rollaS]

Hello, I'm new to the forums. I've been fly fishing for a good 3 years (i'm now 21 yrs old) I fly fish all over PA, my family lives in pittsburgh so I try to fish out there as much as possible when i'm there. My main question is, and please if this is in the wrong thread, mods please move. Valley Creek. I tie my own flies, and i've mastered the few but most effective (so I think) patterns including hairs ear nymph, pheasant tail nymph, green caddis pupa/nymph, etc. For those of you guys who fish Valley Creek, What patterns do I need to use? I was there 3 days in a row fishing a green caddis pupa and hairs ear nymph both in a size 14. I think the 14 may of been too large but I managed to catch 2 Brownies in the 3 days I fished there. I've fished wild trout before, a Place called titusville in western PA, but not with flies. I understand wild fish are skittish and I have no problem being careful and "sneaking" up behind the fish without being detected. Now I caught my 2 fish off the size 14 beadhead hairs ear. But I've done alot of observating and there's plenty of fish in this stream and they were all sipping flies off the surface (I believe it was a mosquito hatch) Although I match the hatch year round, I love to nymph fish and am not too big into dry flies, although I will fish dry fly if/when a hatch is happening when i'm present and I have the fly in my box. If some of you can give me a few pointers of which flies to use in valley creek (nymph wise) pretty much year round I would greatley appreciate it, I just cant figure these fish out. BTW I've used size 16 scud as well and that didnt seem to produce either. Here's a pic of one of the fish I caught the other day.

 

[jayL]

Valley is full of scuds. Keep using them, but try smaller sizes as well.

The hatch was either midges (your mosquito observation would be close enough) or blue winged olives. I'm not sure if you might have just confused caddis pupa and larva, but pupa are only active during a hatch. Otherwise, the fish will be keyed on larvae. With caddis, the progression goes: larva -> pupa (larva with wings) -> adult. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Other flies that are successful at valley are walts worms, and generic nymphs like zug bugs, hares ears, midge nymphs and larva like zebra midges and brassies, and pheasant tails. It's tough. 2 fish in 3 days is better than I did my first few trips, so keep working at it.

Valley will get a sulphur hatch, as well as caddis and craneflies off and on this summer. Also try ants, beetles, hoppers, and cricket patterns when the weather warms.

 

[08rollaS]

Yes! Blue winged olives sounds about right. I ran into an older guy at valley creek and he also said he noticed them as well and figured that was it was. I've read that scuds and a size 16 hairs ear will do well at valley creek. I've used action flies as well such as a black and olive wooley bugger, but nothing. I'll keep throwing scuds though, Unfortunately for me I've tied a few dozen hairs ear in size 14, I'm probally going to go to the local tackle shop and pick up some size 16 hooks to tie smaller patterns. And yes I was confused about the caddis pupa/nymph thing. I just recently took up tying my own flies, and I'm still learning all the differnet patterns and names. I don't know why I didn't start tying sooner. Saves me money and the amount of satisfaction of catching fish on something you've tied is awesome. Now one more question. I have a few san juan worms and I was curious would it be worth tryin those out in valley creek or just stick with the scuds?

 

[jayL]

14 is a little big, but I'd still use them occasionally. I prefer 16 and 18 for hares ears. Those size 14s will do plenty of good on the stocked waters around that area, so hold on to them!

For tying, you're sure to find tons of info here. I also always recommend the orvis fly tying manual, but there are tons of great options. Go to barnes and noble and drink some coffee and read a few. At the very least, you'll learn a bit, even if you don't buy anything.

I have actually never used a san juan at valley, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. It's probably not the most natural forage item if it's brightly colored, but wild trout are still trout. Sometimes they eat stuff just because it's pink.

Try a sucker spawn too, while you're throwing the "junk" flies. :lol: Keep your buggers handy too. I hooked something huge there one day on a bugger.

 

[afishinado]

08,

You picked a tough stream to learn on, but I might be able to help a bit. First of all, contrary to what most, at least most neophyte fly fishers think, almost never are there magic flies or patterns that you can tie on and begin to catch fish. I catch a lot of fish on a genric BHHE (Bead Head Hare’s Ear) like you were fishing. One suggestion is maybe try some smaller nymphs and pupa flies like a Zebra Midge, PT (Pheasant tail) size 18, BHHE size 16 or even 18. All good flies. At Valley right now the BWOs (Blue Wing Olives) are hatching. They are a size 18 or 20, so try a BWO dry and a size 18 PT nymph which is a good representation of the BWO nymph. Many of the rises you see on Valley are midges, which are small (size 24+/-) usually dark midges. Also a midge pupa floated pattern fished in the film will fool some of those risers.

Any of the flies mentioned above will take fish, so enough on fly selection since that’s not really the key. You mentioned stealth, and believe you are not spooking the fish. Stay low, move slow, and wade carefully….that puts you in the ballpark, but to get on base, you must learn to get a drag-free drift. That’s what really separates the successful angler (from a fishing catching standpoint), from the “well it was a nice day anyway” guys. You can put two anglers side-by-side with the exact same fly and the one that can present the fly properly and uses stealth, will win every time.

You must learn to construct a leader that can not only just turn over a fly, but also be cast leaving slack in the tippet and leader. Also, you need to hone your casting skills to able to deliver a slack cast and be accurate as not to line the fish, or spook it by splashing down your leader, tippet or fly.

I suggest you try fishing some stocked streams and work on your presentation, just to get a few fish under your belt. Valley is one of the toughest streams to master since its heavily fished, holds spooky wild trout, and almost always, the water conditions are low and clear.

You aint in Titusville anymore! (even JackM can catch fish there).
:lol:

It will take time, but it will come. Good luck!

 

[08rollaS]

I have a DVD from bass pro that has step by step on hairs ear, phesant tail, wooley bugger, adams, winged ant, and elk hair caddis. I Know each pattern by heart and I do know the basics on fly tying. When I tie new patterns I go to youtube and differnt people do a step by step on how to tie differnt flies which helps me out alot. But yeah for the stocked trout I hammer them with a fly I tie called a greenie weenie (i'm sure you heard of it) I do VERY well with that fly and especially at the yellow breeches with that fly. My main focus is wild trout though. I can't get over how "healthy" and colorful they are. Plus the fact they are alot more difficult to catch. But I thank you for your input, I figured I'd need to go to a smaller size for the fish at valley creek.

afishinado
I 100% agree with you. Valley creek in some spots are difficult to cast, which is why 95% of the time I rely on my roll cast. I try to stay away from dry fly (I guess the reason being is because my fly presentation isn't perfect just yet. I can get the fly to land almost perfect with no splash but my aim isnt the best. As for the drag free drift you're talking about. Thats one thing that gets me here and there. My nymph will be in the moving water but my line will be away from the current and my drift sometimes dosent drift naturally. I've gotten alot better tho and almost never make that mistake. I'm gonna try again sunday morning at valley creek though. I'll tie on some 16 or 18 hares ear and pheasant tail, blue winged olive and will also try the zebra midge you were talking about. I'm fishing a 3wt 7 1/2ft Orvis clearwater with a basspro hobbs creek reel (I love the combo) My question is I have a 5x flourocarbon tippet, since that material sinks do I need to change tippet for my dry flies? would that help any? and I apoligize in advanced with all the questions. I really don't have alot of people to talk to that are into flyfishing or know alot about it. Also one more question. Since i'll be fishing with more midges I should probally go with a 6 or 7X tippet? I fish with a 5X leader if I go with a smaller tippet would I also need a smaller leader as well?

 

[afishinado]

08rollaS wrote:
....My question is I have a 5x flourocarbon tippet, since that material sinks do I need to change tippet for my dry flies? would that help any? and I apoligize in advanced with all the questions. I really don't have alot of people to talk to that are into flyfishing or know alot about it. Also one more question. Since i'll be fishing with more midges I should probally go with a 6 or 7X tippet? I fish with a 5X leader if I go with a smaller tippet would I also need a smaller leader as well?

You came to the right place (PAFF) for FF questions.

I usually use regular mono for dries and flouro for nymphs. I'm not one of those 10x tippet guys! For dries 5x for size 14 to maybe size 18 flies, and 6x for size 18 or smaller in clear water conditions, real small midges may need 7x. Besides the diameter, the thing to remember about tippet, and getting a drag-free float, is the longer the tippet, the better the drift. This works to a point, until the fly completely collapses on the water. There is a fine line that you must find with experimentation of tippets regarding the size and/or wind resistance of the fly vs. the diameter and length of the tippet.

For most nymphs I use 5x flouro. I may go down to 6x for small flies and clear water in Valley. Also try not to use a big indicator for nymphing. The smallest needed for visibility. A pinch or two of Strike Putty works well. Sometimes just a greased leader is all you need. Also try tying on a dry with small nymph dropper (12 – 24”). Right now a size 18 – 20 BWO dry with an 18 PT nymph is a great choice.

Also, to answer your question on leaders, you probably don’t have to change leaders, just tippets. Try leaving 10-12” of 5x at the end of your leader and tie your 6x tippet of 24” to 30”. For 7x, leave 10-12” of 6x on and tie on a 7x tippet of the same length for midges. This is a starting point, you must try casting and drifting your flies and fine-tune from there.

Keep firing out the questions. There are a lot of great FFers on the board that are always willing to help.

Good Luck!

 

[gfen]

08rollaS wrote:
I don't know why I didn't start tying sooner. Saves me money

You're doing it wrong.

 

[jayL]

I'll type this in caps to make sure you catch it.

USE YOUR GREEN WEENIES ON VALLEY.

I repeat...

USE THEM ON VALLEY.

:lol: Like I said above, they are still trout. That fly is killer on all trout, whether wild or stocked. It's also my favorite subsurface fly for mountain brookies.

 

[afishinado]

Jay.........have you no shame?

 

[jayL]

Afish,

Your avatar is a sucker.

And no. I don't, but I think you know that. :lol:

 

[ryguyfi]

jayL wrote:
I'll type this in caps to make sure you catch it.

USE YOUR GREEN WEENIES ON VALLEY.

I repeat...

USE THEM ON VALLEY.

:lol: Like I said above, they are still trout. That fly is killer on all trout, whether wild or stocked. It's also my favorite subsurface fly for mountain brookies.

yeah I tied up some bead chain eyed green weenies the other day, anxious to see if a little bit of weight helps out. I was doubtful of the green weenie, but caught a few fish on them last year and may use them a bit more this year. I have no shame in using junk flies, I'm not good enough to be a proud fly fisherman, whatever catches fish, I'll do it!

 

[gfen]

Does someone have a picture of an offical Honey Bug fly?

The Green Weenie is just thin green chenille with a loop off the back and wrapped up the shank, right?

 

[MKern]

Honey Bug Kit

Got this off E hillies site. It is a picture of a honey bug kit, but you can see a flie in the picture.

 

[08rollaS]

awww anti-greenie weenie? Thats the first fly I learned (i guess you can call it that). It is actually pretty effective. I use a size 12 hook with 1/8 beadhead and tie it with green/orange/pink Chenille. And gfen, yes that's all it is very simple to tie. afishinado, how come you don't like this pattern? anyway, i'm gonna try and get out tommorow for opening day (i'm gonna regrete it) if it's too bad i'll just go over to valley creek. I just tied up some size 16 hares ear and pheasant nymphs and size 18 blue winged olive which i'll probally end up using. If I do go to Valley creek i'll keep you guys updated on how I did. Again thank you all for helping me out and pointing me in the right direction.

 

[gfen]

-shrug- To match the hatch on opening week and on stocking days, I tied up some pretty accurate pellet flies.

At least the green weenie/honey bug is a little classier than that.

 

[afishinado]

If the truth be known, I keep some green weenies in one of my fly boxes next to my SJ worms and egg flies. When things get tough.....I give them a try.

As a matter of fact, try tying a BH GW on a scud hook wrapped with lead wire underneath. It's a great anchor fly on a dropper because, with the lead, it rides hook point up. Also, you can use it in clear deep water for sight fishing since it very visible in the water, and you can watch the fish react or take. It is also a great carp fly for sight fishin! So there!........ :-D

 

[osprey]

Could someone tell me where valley creek is, now i realize there are probably 20 valley creeks in pa but i mean the one "need some pointers is talking about"

 

[08rollaS]

It runs through Valley Forge National Park. If this helps any it's right across the street from washingtons headquarters (I believe that's what it's called) in VF. it runs through the whole park, it's hard to miss.