My SIMMS Warranty Experience

[mute]

So Ive had my G3 Waders for about 5 or 6 years now and i finally couldnt take the leaks anymore. I recently aqua sealed most if not all the pin holes in the seams but then the booties started getting damp so i called it quits. After Simms received my waders they had them for about 45 days before just sending me the email saying my G3 waders are "not repairable to be able to meet their standards afterward". Nice way of saying "tough ****" I guess. Not sure how the booties being ripped off and replaced dont justify their quality standards, since i basically did all the seam work myself, but whatever.

While my G3s have been around a while(5-6 years), And have been used probably 300 times or so. They were treated well, booties weren't yanked or pulled off after a day of fishing, they wern't bundled up in a ball wet for days, etc. I actually treated them very diligently in every way.

I would still disagree with them on why all of a sudden in a few months time 60% of the seams have pin holes going all through them. To me thats not life expectancy usage out of them, that's something went wrong. Unless im missing something.

The email said they are shipping them back to me and I can call to discuss replacement options. Not sure what that replacement option means. But im assuming its, "well sell you a new pair of our latest model". So I will take the bait and give them a call later to see what the deal is. Maybe ill be surprised and ill be offered a comparable set of waders at a reputable discount directly from them. If not, then this will be the last set of SIMMs i purchase.

And if that's the case, I'm looking at some recommendations on what else to navigate towards. With so many options its hard to choose "the right one". I will say i am changing my fishing style going forward. Traditionally it was gear up, walk down a pavement path, plop into the water. Very easy on the waders in my opinion.

I'm now doing more bushwhacking, walking, exploring, etc. I'm wondering if $500+ waders really offer any better durability then $300 waders. I'm very tempted to just give Orvis a try, even if their closer to the $500 spectrum only because there's a local Orvis\TCO store and i've heard they back their products very well. Although I thought SIMMs did as well too.

Anyway, looking for any advice or reccomendations and your experience with say $300 waders compared to the name brand $500+. So far these are the ones Ive been contemplating about.

1. LL Bean Kennebec Stockingfoot Waders with Super Seam - $279 (https://bit.ly/3ajQ1zC)

2. Redington Sonic Pro - $350 (https://bit.ly/36zHPtY)

3. Frogg Toggs Puilit II - $240 (https://bit.ly/3pTuZOQ)

4. Orivs Pro - $550 (https://bit.ly/3tiB35K)

5. Dryft S14 Adrenaline - $300 (https://bit.ly/3oGHDPV)


I honestly am even contemplating buying multiple ~$100 waders on amazon as some look decent. As long as they last atleast a year, that would align with what Simms just gave me. And I could basically have a new pair every year.

 

[mute]

Well, that was useless. Basically the email was misleading and SIMMs does NOT offer any sort of discounted replacement wader at all. Actually they don't offer any replacement in this scenario in their process or workflow. Basically you would just call their sales department and buy one regardless of your customer service situation.

Well, sorry to say SIMMs, but thats **** poor. Definitely for loyalty to your products and the profits you make. Even if they offered 15% discount codes I would of probably taken them up on it. As of right now I'm leaning towards either Orvis Pros which I found for $500 which is $50 cheaper then average or the Redington SonicPros. I like how redington says on their site even if a repair claim isnt their product at fault, they may possibly offer a discount code on a new wader purchase.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

I have had simms g3 and reddington sonic pros both for work use and personal angling. I really like the reddingtons but the material is definitely thinner than the simms. They breathe better but I try to take it easy on them in the brush. The Simms I wear very hard and am going on 3 years of no issues. yes they are expensive, but my experience has been positive with simms. I would be happy with 5-6 years of any waders that were used heavily. Other option is to buy cheap waders off STP for $100-150 and hope to get 2 years out of them. In the end my experience has been you roughly pay the same.

 

[coyoterahn]

Mute, I know how it feel to spend big bucks on waders and then experience leaks after a few years. I’ve tried various brands and was disappointed with most.
I now own a pair of Dryft waders. I bought them when they had a sale going on. I like them a lot but have only had them for maybe 2 1/2 years. No problems thus far. I have a fishing buddy also that has Dryft waders.
If they last me another couple of years I’m good with that. I do a bit of bushwhacking so my waders get some miles on them.

 

[mute]

lycoflyfisher wrote:
I have had simms g3 and reddington sonic pros both for work use and personal angling. I really like the reddingtons but the material is definitely thinner than the simms. They breathe better but I try to take it easy on them in the brush. The Simms I wear very hard and am going on 3 years of no issues. yes they are expensive, but my experience has been positive with simms. I would be happy with 5-6 years of any waders that were used heavily. Other option is to buy cheap waders off STP for $100-150 and hope to get 2 years out of them. In the end my experience has been you roughly pay the same.

Interesting. Are you comparing Sonic Pros or Sonic Pro HDs? From what redington told me the HD's are 15% thicker then the normal Sonic Pros.

I definitely got a couple hundred uses out of the G3s and they were the older 2014 model. So its been 6 years or so. Im sure its hard to beat the Goretex durability and reliability. What irks me is they dont seem to care about customer loyalty. Even if the Redingtons are a bit thinner, from my understanding and what youre even saying, theyre a good durable wader.

So with them being over $100 cheaper, and lasting close to the life expectancy of Simms, and Redington stating they basically show gratitude and can offer a discount code for loyality if you need replacements\repairs it may make it a better choice in the end, who knows. The Simms experience just put a dirty taste in my mouth. For who they are, they dont seem to care about the customer.

 

[mute]

coyoterahn wrote:
Mute, I know how it feel to spend big bucks on waders and then experience leaks after a few years. I’ve tried various brands and was disappointed with most.
I now own a pair of Dryft waders. I bought them when they had a sale going on. I like them a lot but have only had them for maybe 2 1/2 years. No problems thus far. I have a fishing buddy also that has Dryft waders.
If they last me another couple of years I’m good with that. I do a bit of bushwhacking so my waders get some miles on them.

I know Dryft has been on the up and coming from what ive seen. Alot of guys are rep'n their gear. And the person I talked to about their product sizing compared to the G3s was very pleasant to speak with.

Im kind of skeptical about them though. For how much they push the style and stretchy form fitting comfort of them around it makes me think theyre lacking in the functionality and reliability department. Usually a bit oversized\baggyness of the material is what you want in a wader so the seams dont get tension when youre kneeing, bending over, walking etc.

They are on my list though, and i was dabbling with the idea of getting the Jcket\Waders combo package, even though I dont need the jacket. I dont know at this point.

 

[lycoflyfisher]

mute wrote:
[

Interesting. Are you comparing Sonic Pros or Sonic Pro HDs? From what redington told me the HD's are 15% thicker then the normal Sonic Pros.

I definitely got a couple hundred uses out of the G3s and they were the older 2014 model. So its been 6 years or so. Im sure its hard to beat the Goretex durability and reliability. What irks me is they dont seem to care about customer loyalty. Even if the Redingtons are a bit thinner, from my understanding and what youre even saying, theyre a good durable wader.

So with them being over $100 cheaper, and lasting close to the life expectancy of Simms, and Redington stating they basically show gratitude and can offer a discount code for loyality if you need replacements\repairs it may make it a better choice in the end, who knows. The Simms experience just put a dirty taste in my mouth. For who they are, they dont seem to care about the customer.

The sonic pros I have are 3 years old not sure the exact model but they are without question thinner than the simms g3. As such I do baby them a bit more. Unless your doing extreme bushwacking, I would think most most of us would get a few years out of these. There is no way around waders being expensive, I have definitely started wet wading more during the summer and some of my brook trout explorations I may only wear my hiking boots and try to stay out of the stream entirely.

I have had simms, Redington, frogtog, cabelas and have close friends who have had ll bean waders. If I were going to try and get 5 years or more out of a wader I would be hard pressed to not choose simms.

Dryft and Compass 360 both seem to be up and coming options, but I do not know anyone who has more than 1 season on a pair yet.

Good luck whichever way you go.

 

[steveo]

My warranty experience with Orvis was the opposite. I forget how my Orvis waders were when I gave up on them but it was probably at least 6 or 7 years. I called Orvis and they said to send them in and they would see if they could put new booties on them. After they got them they said they were too far gone to repair which was not a surprise to me. The difference was that they offered me a HUGE discount (almost 50% as I recall) on 2 or 3 different models. I took them up on the offer.

 

[hunter1]

Ws that a couple of years ago. I think now they only warranty fora year.I have there waders also, I like them.

 

[pcray1231]

5 or 6 years of heavy fishing in a pair of breathables is pretty good.

My rule of thumb has been $100/year. Buy $100 waders, they last a year. $300 last 3. It has fit through 2 pairs of hodgemans, 2 pairs of Orvis, a pair of LL beans,and a pair of Cabelas. And my conclusion was spending more gets you more, but doesn't beat the curve. The cost per year was the same whether you went the cheap or expensive route and nothing wrong with either.

My current G3's are on year 7, my first set to beat the curve. But I've repaired them relentlessly and they are on their last legs. I think the inside is like 50% aquaseal, lol. Thats gotta hurt the breathability! But what I like about the Simms is that spraying alcohol on the inside reveals the pinholes, and they are easier to repair as a result. It doesn't work on many other brands.

When they go, I don't expect Simms to replace em. They've surpassed the life expectancy of breathable waders.

 

[a23fish]

pcray1231 - "But what I like about the Simms is that spraying alcohol on the inside reveals the pinholes, and they are easier to repair as a result. It doesn't work on many other brands."

I'd never heard that. Can you explain just how you do it? Turn them inside out & spray with rubbing alcohol? Some other trick & technique? I never did find the leaks on my old Hodgman wading pants; I figured they just wore out consistent with their price point.

 

[Swattie87]

Geez. You guys have some lofty expectations for your waders. 5-6 years and 300 days on the water is a couple reasonable product lifetimes for most waders. Or more. And yes, lots of small leaks, seemingly all at once, along the wader seams, usually the inside of the upper legs, is how most waders ultimately terminally fail. Assuming no major acute punctures or tears. This is from the stretching of the seams from walking over time. Walk less, and they last longer. Hike a lot in them, and they’ll wear out quicker. I think I had one pair where the booties gave out, but all the rest were the inner upper leg seams. You feel the wetness on the inside of your leg, just above the knee typically.

IMO Simms didn’t owe you a dime. You got your money’s worth out of them and then some, and Simms should have earned your repeat business by you buying another pair.

If I ever got 5-6 years and 300 days on the water (it sounds like you and I fish at relatively about the same frequency) I’d be darn happy with how I spent my money and glad to purchase those waders again.

My experience on the cost/lifespan is roughly the same as pcray’s. $100 in cost buys you about a year of leak free performance for how I fish. Lots of hiking, and fishing roughly 1x/week on average. It’s not an exact formula, but on average most pairs I’ve owned this comes out relatively accurate.

Lately, I’ve adopted a two wader strategy. I have a nicer pair (currently LLBean Kennebecs) that I wear for fishing larger streams and/or when I don’t expect to do much hiking, and a beater pair that I use on small streams where I’m hiking a lot. For the beater pair I buy whatever is on a good sale at the time, aiming to be at or under $100. Sometimes, the nice pair hits the back half of their lifespan right as the beaters give out. Then the nice pair becomes the beaters and I get a new nice pair.

Everyone’s mileage will vary here to some degree based on how you use them, but I don’t think it was very realistic to expect a replacement or discount on a new pair when you clearly got good life and performance out of your old pair. Waders are a consumable in terms of FFing. If you use them, they all eventually wear out. I’ve had two models last 3 years for me, which is the best I’ve gotten...LLBean Kennebecs - $250ish, they keep going up in price. (I’ve owned three pairs now, got 3 years each out of the first two. Third pair is basically brand new. I bought all three, none were put in for warranty claims.) And an $80 pair of Allen el cheapo’s believe it or not. The Allens really lacked on comfort features, but they were cheap and didn’t leak and were the best mileage per dollar pair I’ve ever owned. I forget the model, but they were on close out, and are no longer made.

 

[ryansheehan]

Agree with swatty 100%. I've worn Simms, Orvis, Bean, Redington, Hodgeman... I'm sure I'm missing a few. I've never, ever come close to 5 years and 300 trips. I now shoot for two fishing seasons in my waders, but realistically I was getting one when fishing 50+ days. If I knew a pair of Simms would last me 300 days on the water I would happily buy them. In fact I am shocked that you're now blasting them, they don't owe you a thing.

 

[larkmark]

Buy good Patagonia waders and take care of them. Simms are way over rated and their service sucks on my experience. All of them are over priced but at least with Patagonia the fit is nice and they do hold up.

 

[Swattie87]

I’ll add one additional thought on the Aquaseal piece. My experience is AS works very well at repairing (sometimes best combined with a patch) small acute tears and pinholes. Those kind of repairs generally don’t ever leak again and outlast the waders.

When you start to get leaks along the seems though, AS will help, and slow them temporarily, but this signals the beginning of the end. Even if I attempt some AS work, that’s my sign to be begin shopping for a replacement.

 

[mute]

larkmark wrote:
Buy good Patagonia waders and take care of them. Simms are way over rated and their service sucks on my experience. All of them are over priced but at least with Patagonia the fit is nice and they do hold up.

I thought they were good too. My experience has been worse then simms for them. Bought their wading pants a few years ago. Less then 100 outings. Look at them... Worst $300 ever spent. With all their fashion and style targeting I like to call them pattagucci.

 

[Swattie87]

^That’s classic worn out seams from stretching. It sucks that it can’t be avoided, because it happens simply from walking in them. Wading doesn’t kill waders, walking does. (I’ve found a baggier cut wader can help with this, a little.)

Everyone is free to make up their own mind as to what level of performance/lifespan justifies their purchase money, but in my experience, every single pair of waders I’ve ever owned from a variety of manufacturers looked like that approaching 100 outings, or sooner in most cases. I have no clue what any looked like at 300, because none came close. Those pictures are normal, and depict worn out seams from use.

Honestly, if you got 300 outings out of a pair (the Simms) you’re gonna be hard pressed to find a pair to spend your money on that you’ll be happier with.

Edit: I’m not trying to specifically vouch for Simms here. I don’t own any of their waders or any significant products from them. I think I have a couple of shirts, but that’s it. Just relaying my relative experiences with waders for comparison. Frankly, I never had the stones to pony up the initial cost for Simms waders, fearing I’d be disappointed if they last as long as some of the other less expensive pairs I’ve bought. But hearing you got 300 outings out of them has me considering giving them a shot for my next pair. I guess a net wash for them if they lose a customer in you, but gain one from me from this discussion.

 

[dryflyguy]

Last time I returned Simms waders - 7 or 8 years ago now - they offered me 30% off any new pair.
Times are tough I guess.

Mute - are those Patagonia wading pants called " Gunnison gorge"?
That's what I bought on clearance - for $180.

For that price, I figured they were worth trying.
After one full season of use, I'm happy with them so far.
But I really haven't used them much

 

[steveo]

hunter1 wrote:
Ws that a couple of years ago. I think now they only warranty fora year.I have there waders also, I like them.

Yes it was a couple of years ago. The waders were out of warranty but they still offered me a hefty discount.

 

[larkmark]

Some good points. Getting proper fit is crucial. If they are getting stretched out then fit could be the problem. I also like them a little baggy for that reason. I had a hilarious conversation with Simms rep where he blamed me for wearing blue jeans under waders for them wearing out. I have to wonder with all of technology out there
why someone doesn't make a real good wader.
I know years ago I had Orvis bootfoots that lasted for ten years. You can't buy anything like them anymore.