Let Me Get This Off My Chest

JackM

JackM

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While fishing the Little J Saturday with Gino, we had an experience that angered me and I've kept it to myself. Now I want to unload.

I have always respected private property when posted, and even when it isn't, where a reasonable opportunity exists for seeking permission to fish, I will ask. I have done this with Gino along and hope to instill proper manners in him by example.

Well, we parked below Rothrock Forest along the road to the forest lot near Barree. I know that there is a short section of streamside land that has signage, so we entered the water well-below this. We worked our way up to the tail of the long pool and noticed a group of adults and perhaps children with a small encampment set up on the posted streamside land. There were two fishing lines projecting into the water from the bank about 10 feet above the water, going out at an angle to about 1/3 the way across the river.

Not wanting to disturb their fishing, I guided Gino to the far side of the river, perhaps 10-15 yards from the shore and we began wading up into the hole hoping to catch some risers on the far shore. We saw a rise near a downed tree and Gino waded into position to cast. I tried to wade up above him, but the water was deepening, so I backed down behind him.

Just about then I saw a canoe come darting across the river from where the group was camped out. There was a young woman and her dog in the canoe. She shot right upstream of Gino, maybe 20 feet or less and slammed her canoe against the downed tree, more or less "beaching" it there. She shoo-ed her dog into the water and he scampered up on shore. She started splashing around trying to get him to swim. She then teased him with a stick, threw it in the direction of Gino's line and told him to "fetch." The dog showed more manners than she and refused, so she splashed around some more. Gino turned around in disgust and came down my way having had his fishing spot ruined.

We both agreed to a choice word to describe her and returned to the water below the tail out.

Earlier, we encountered with kayakers and rafters and when Gino commented about them putting fish down, I told him we had to share the river.

With hindsight, I wish I would have been more vocal at the time, telling that $%&* her behavior was rude. Better yet, I should have waded up through the middle of the hole, crossing as close to their fishing lines as possible in the hopes they would comment. On the other hand, with so much open acess across private lands, why take a chance on a landowner backlash by being combative.

Anyhow, just wanted to get that off my chest. If you know these people, maybe you can find a way to let them know that there are two anglers who think they acted like @$$*&%#s.
 
I see it all of the time on the more popular floating waters, it just comes down to people having respect for one another. Ive had guys come down the water and ask me where would be the best way for them to not mess me up. And ive had others cross within two feet of me splashing the whole way. Im an avid kayaker as well and whenever I come across someone fishing I always either go behind them if possible or float as close to the far bank as possible and don't do any paddling whatsoever.
 
I am convinced that this girl was intentionally trying to disturb our fishing. I even believe the rest of the gang had put her up to it. She cryptically called back to them that she "had forgot the shampoo." If it seemed remotely possible she was merely unconscious of her infringing on us, I wouldn't even be upset.
 
I wouldn't doubt that she was trying to mess you up on purpose. Maybe the rest of her group thought you were "moving in" on them or something. Then again some people are just selohssa.
 
The lady who used to live there, was one of the nicest people I have ever met, don't know who lives there now?? Sorry you had that experience, especially that Gino witnessed it.
 
Jack,

Sounds to me like you were bullied. It happens, Next time cast a big trebble into the eyeball of her dog...Maybe she will play in the water somewhere else.

Seriously, I would have said something. This is exaxtly the kind of thing the judges decision is supposed to prevent. I wuld have gotten close enough to the canoe to inform her it was illegal to harrass anglers and she was invading your recreational space. You believe it to be intentional and she could be arrested.

She can take that back to the "family" what are they gonna do..post the property? Its already posted.

Maurice
 
thats a shame jack. some people are just jerks. i glad to hear how you are instilling good values in gino. hope the rest of your outings are jerk free!
 
Isn't there a law on the PFC books regarding dogs and cold water fisheries? I ran into a similar problem at fisherman's paradise. While casting to a fish, some huck threw a stick right at my feet and had is 2 rotweilers go after it. I spoke up which resulted in him coming over and begging me to take a swing. Another fisherman saw what was happening and called the police. The hilljack spit in my face just as the State Trooper pulled into the lot. The trooper mentioned a law that a dog must be leashed and can not disturb the anglers. I asked for charges to be pressed for assault and the trooper told me that he's handle it. I had a similar experience on the Tully when someone decided to train their labs near the water plant while there were 10 fisherman casting to rising fish. Most fisherman left but I spoke up. The dog's owner told me to quit crying. It was public property and I could move if I wasn't happy. I let them know that they may be inside the laws of the state park but the stream is governed by the PFC and they may want to check out their laws before being so smug. I own a dog but I'm also curtious and responsible. There are idiots everywhere.
 
I would have grabbed the canoe and unceremoniously turned it over and when she went in held her under for long enough that she'd get the point. Then if someone said something I would have dragged the idiot into the water and held him under. Seriously though, I would have said something to the $@?!. Harrassment of anglers is against the law I would have reminded them of that, and then if they had a problem with it, I would have taken a picture of them and their car and been off to see the police.
 
I personally would not go messing with a bunch of people on their own turf. I would move, especially if i had my kid with me. Jack I am sure that you are all to aware that there are tons of crazies out there. A few good old boys and some alcohol in the middle of the woods. You or Gino could have gotten into a bad situation. My wife calls me paranoid but in a situation like that I visualise what "could" happen and work backwards from there.

We are just out there to catch fish, not get into altercations. Reguradless of who is right or wrong, if someone is being that obtrusive would you bet your life on the fact that they will back down and aplologize?
 
I actually once got ran over by a raft on the Yough. I really doubt it was intentional since it was one of those family guided sort of deals and I heard a girl in the raft say "Oh my God, were going to hit him" Capt Matt was there, one of the funniest things he's ever seen, according to him.
 
By the way, good advice ryanh. You never really know who your dealing with.
 
Jack, I guess I have been lucky because I have never had anything that bad happen to me. But if I had, I like to think I would have just walked away like you did. When i was younger? Maybe not. There is no need to escalate a situation like that. It would only make you more angry in the long run, and you would probably regret it, especially since Gino was along.

Like i always say. Some people are idiots, and there goes one. Well, usually I leave out the word "some" :-D
 
good advice ryan. once i got ran over by a canoe on pine creek in the canyon.i know that wasent intentional because the asian people trying to navigate the thing where going in circles and sideways the whole way. the apologized up and down. it was pretty funny. but still good advice ryan....no need for gino to see the wrath of jackm and a bad situation get worse. plus u dont know how crazy that person is. luckly im pretty crazy myself :lol:
but remember jack what goes around comes around. someday they will get it back! probably do the same thing to stonefly and get drowned! :p
 
Like my mamma always said...
DON'T MESS WITH CRAZY PEOPLE!

[size=x-small]She was talking about her inlaws.[/size]
 
I agree to just walk away from idiots, however in my book there comes a point where walking away is not an option. For the most part I am a fairly quiet person but push the right buttons and you better be ready. I am not necessarily afraid of the idiots out there, trust me I deal with enough on a daily basis. I would say 98% are so full of S%&T that I don't worry about the other two percent.

There is a point where it does become harrassment. About the dogs, I have been to fishermans paradise with my dog and have had her off the leash but then again I have had her under my control and she is scared of water. BTW the last time I was there I was stung about 15 times and my dog about 30 times by ground wasps. It was not fun by any means.
 
guttrap wrote:
I actually once got ran over by a raft on the Yough. I really doubt it was intentional since it was one of those family guided sort of deals and I heard a girl in the raft say "Oh my God, were going to hit him" Capt Matt was there, one of the funniest things he's ever seen, according to him.

Yes, one of the funniest things I've ever seen. :lol:
 
If I had a son or someone young with me I probally would of done the same thing as you Jack. But I don't and I have no problem openning a can of whoop *** on anyone if its verbal or physical that disrespects me in anyway. I beleive if you walk away than you just told that person what they are doing is ok, and they will definitely do it again to someone else and you failed as a fly fisherman to educate these people on stream etiquette.So challege these people and let them know what they are doing is wrong and do your part..... :pint:
 
JackM wrote:
I am convinced that this girl was intentionally trying to disturb our fishing. I even believe the rest of the gang had put her up to it. She cryptically called back to them that she "had forgot the shampoo." If it seemed remotely possible she was merely unconscious of her infringing on us, I wouldn't even be upset.

I agree that's what she was doing. The courts have decided that the river is a public resource. So some people will use harassment and intimidation to try to keep "their" section of the river from being used by others.

We cannot allow them to get away with this. A certain party has been doing this on the West Branch Delaware and it has occurred other places as well. We should understand that people are trying to do this and work together and call them on their criminal activity. Because that's what it is.

The river belongs to the public and anyone who uses harassment and intimidation to drive other users away is in violation of the law. There is a law against the harassment of someone who is legally fishing.

Call the WCO and report them. If these people are in the practice of harassing people (and I've heard other stories about that location) then the more people that report the problems the better.

In England they have trail associations that check the access to legally established trails and if anyone illegally blocks access to those trails, the trail associations take them to court. This is the sort of organization and firm committment that is needed in the case of anglers.

Some people just won't listen to reason. So you have to use the law to back them down.
 
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