Leader Tying Kits

[podflyguy]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum and have only been fly fishing for a little over 2 years now. I've been looking into some leader tying kits and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. I always try to give my business to local shops, but the Cabela's gift card in my pocket will win out this time. I saw the Maxima, Umpqua, and Frog Hair leader tying kits on the Cabela's website. Anybody have experience with these?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[jdaddy]

Frankly any of those kits will work fine. I use a mix of Maxima and Frog Hair. Have fun.

 

[gfen]

I bought six spools of Chameleon to augment my full range of "soft" tippets.

I've been doin' OK with just that.

 

[zenherper]

I started making my own leaders as well, and just purchased a bunch of small spools of the following and used slight variations to the Harvey formulas:

25# Chameleon, 20# Clear mono, 15# clear mono, 12# Amnesia, and Rio tippet in sizes 1 - 7. I'm hoping this keeps me covered for most leader situations.

Harvey Leader Formulas -
http://www.riseformstudio.tv/leader_formula.html

 

[jdaddy]

I don't understand the "Modified Harvey Slack leader for Nymphing". Seems like a recipe for drag through the water column.

????

 

[zenherper]

jdaddy wrote:
I don't understand the "Modified Harvey Slack leader for Nymphing". Seems like a recipe for drag through the water column.

????

Haha. I didn't say I used them yet... Like I said, I'm hoping they cover my needs (when I start throwing the dries). You saw my intricate nymphing rig = any leader tied to my line with about 4' of 4x tippet.

It doesn't take long to get blasted around here, does it? lol

 

[pete41]

The slack leader was designed to collapse or pile the last 1/3 of the leader for dry fly presentations. Why would one want a leader that does not straighten out? Because it allows you to get a longer drag free drift with a dry fly. If your cast lays line, leader, and fly straight out without slack, the current will immediately cause the fly to drag. These leaders out perform modern extruded leaders. They definitely are worth the extra effort or cost.-
what's not to understand?
Gives the nymph time to sink -hook and curve casts do the same.

 

[jdaddy]

pete41 wrote:

what's not to understand?

I guess the question? I questioned tapered nymph leaders. You retorted with a diatribe about dry fly presentation. I am all on board with hand tied tapered dry leaders as per Mr. Harvey, you know because that's what all the cool kids said I had to do, but I am not digging a tapered nymph leader.

IMO, zenherper you are doing it closer to right than the tapered leader.

Also, I wasn't blasting you. You will know it when I am blasting you. LOL. Also, I still have your extruded leaders. :-D

 

[pete41]

said they were for nymphs also-I didn't bring it all over-I agree about tapered for nymphs being "why bother".Should have shown quotes---
Sorry thought you meant the slack-wasn't really following the whole debate-.
Fishing three large nymphs on western streams I had tangles that still haunt me.lol

 

[zenherper]

Jdaddy - Yes, I'm sorry I wasn't very clear. The leaders I am tying are tapered leaders for dry flies (for when I will need them). I might use a tapered butt section, but thus far, I have been more concerned with the business end of the leader with a long piece of 4x or 5x for nymphing. I thought pod was asking about tying kits for tapered leaders, which is why I thought you were blasting me, because you know I haven't thrown them yet. ;-)

 

[gutcutter]

podflyguy wrote:
I've been looking into some leader tying kits ...but the Cabela's gift card in my pocket will win out this time. I saw the Maxima, Umpqua, and Frog Hair leader tying kits on the Cabela's website. Anybody have experience with these?

Thanks,
Josh

Of the three mentioned, the Frog Hair kit has the best tool.
I believe that you can buy it separate from the kit, too.
You can then purchase monofilament or fluorocarbon line of your choice.
There is an "art" to leader design, and jdaddy has the link to a formula algorhythm. The art is learning when to use stiff or soft monofilament.
Hope this helps more than a discussion about tapered nymph leaders :-?

 

[jdaddy]

gutcutter wrote:

podflyguy wrote:
I've been looking into some leader tying kits ...but the Cabela's gift card in my pocket will win out this time. I saw the Maxima, Umpqua, and Frog Hair leader tying kits on the Cabela's website. Anybody have experience with these?

Thanks,
Josh

Of the three mentioned, the Frog Hair kit has the best tool.
I believe that you can buy it separate from the kit, too.
You can then purchase monofilament or fluorocarbon line of your choice.
There is an "art" to leader design, and jdaddy has the link to a formula algorhythm. The art is learning when to use stiff or soft monofilament.
Hope this helps more than a discussion about tapered nymph leaders :-?

Here is mentioned excel spreadsheet that really gets into the nuts and bolts. The users guide explains a lot about leader construction.

http://globalflyfisher.com/fishbetter/leadercalc/download.php

 

[podflyguy]

Thanks for all your help everyone. I downloaded LeaderCalc and the tying guide and I'm already impressed with how it works. Filtering for rod weight, leader length and tippet size seems to simplify the selection quite a bit. Hopefully I can start with the standard leaders and work my way through some of the more technical stuff. I sort of had a hunch before posting that the frog hair kit would be my best bet just for completeness sake (materials, tying tool, tape, and a box for it all to go in). I doubt I could piece it all together a la carte for much less than $100.

I do like to use fluorocarbon tippet for most of the summer, especially for tricos. Will I have any trouble tying 6 or 7x fluorocarbon into the frogs hair mono? Or would it be better to taper the leader with fluorocarbon throughout?

 

[jdaddy]

podflyguy wrote:

I do like to use fluorocarbon tippet for most of the summer, especially for tricos. Will I have any trouble tying 6 or 7x fluorocarbon into the frogs hair mono? Or would it be better to taper the leader with fluorocarbon throughout?

I know that no one is going to be able to convince you not to use fluorocarbon with dry flies (you know because it is dense, sinks, creates micro drag, is less limp than mono,etc), so ya just surgeons knot the two materials.

 

[gfen]

Leadercalc is too fidgety, and I feel you're prone to get lost into the morass. Whatever you do, pick a formula to start and, well, start. Experiment from there on out. If you get all hot for leadercalc you'll spend more time letting something dictate numbers instead of building your knowledge through experience.

Also, FC is pointless for dry flies, especially for winky little flies. FC sinks. It will bring down your barely-there fly, so, what's the point?

FC also doesn't degrade, meaning every little piece you leave out in the enviroment will be there for your children to enjoy.

I could walk around punching puppies for fun, too, but I don't. Well, not generally.

 

[tennjed]

gfen wrote:

FC also doesn't degrade, meaning every little piece you leave out in the enviroment will be there for your children to enjoy.

x2. Could not have said it any better.


I've been playing around with Gary Borger's unibody system. So far, I'm really digging it. Less knots to tie and you can change very quickly depending on the situation.

 

[podflyguy]

Like I said, I'm pretty green in fly fishing at this point. I wasn't aware of all the bad-making features of FC. All I ever heard was that it was great with small flies for the invisibility factor. If it screws up drifts and is bad for the environment, then it just makes this adventure into leader tying cheaper and easier. No FC for this guy! Glad I only bought one spool of 7x last summer!

 

[jdaddy]

podflyguy wrote:
Like I said, I'm pretty green in fly fishing at this point. I wasn't aware of all the bad-making features of FC. All I ever heard was that it was great with small flies for the invisibility factor. If it screws up drifts and is bad for the environment, then it just makes this adventure into leader tying cheaper and easier. No FC for this guy! Glad I only bought one spool of 7x last summer!

Somebody sold you 7x AND FC. Give them a kick. LOL.

I know a couple of newbies that literally had one spool of tippet and it was 7x. I wish I could say they got it at Cabelas or mail ordered it, but I can't.

 

[gfen]

jdaddy wrote:
I know a couple of newbies that literally had one spool of tippet and it was 7x. I wish I could say they got it at Cabelas or mail ordered it, but I can't.

I don't blame them, it makes sense in their world.

I've noticed gear guys seem baffled when I tell them I've got "about 8# test" in the form of 3x for streamers or wets. They don't understand, "I never go above 2#" which is about the same as 7x.

-shrug-

I'd like to know why the gear guys who chuck spinners, etc, goto 2# if all they're doing is dragging hardware through the water column.

 

[moon1284]

If you are using an ultra light rod (spinning or casting not fly) with a reel with a small spool and small lures, then lighter mono will be thinner in diameter, have less memory (be limper), and cast much better than heaver mono. If you are using a larger rod and larger lures, then lighter line has no advantages. Try casting a 1/16 oz or smaller lure on an ultra light rod with #8 test, then cast the same lure with #2 test, you will see what I mean.