Keystone select trout waters

[NJTroutbum]

Stocking is not going anywhere. It cant. Especially in the world we live in today. Wild fisheries work in C&R waters....and large tributaries. But not on the states trout streams. And when you do that, flyfishermen are happy, but not the other 97% . So why not stock some of the breederrs and mix thigs up. Try taking your favorite water and make it c&r..see how crowded it gets. Every FF in 3 states will turn it into a destination.

 

[Midge22]

"Wild fisheries work in C&R waters....and large tributaries. But not on the states trout streams"

^please tell me what you mean??? its safe to say that every native brook trout steam would be an exception to what you just said. most are not catch and release. and you say that you think it would only work on large tribs seems like your throwing something at the wall and hoping it sticks. Matter of fact, its just plain wrong. There are still hundereds of native brook trout streams that have a large population of wild fish, but the state stocks and you can harvest fish.

"Try taking your favorite water and make it c&r..see how crowded it gets. Every FF in 3 states will turn it into a destination"

^Central pa is a perfect example of this, and quite frankly, its not bad. Quit stocking and manage for wild fish and see how many white truck chasers will come to your new "destination" fishery.. wont happen.


"And when you do that, flyfishermen are happy, but not the other 97% . So why not stock some of the breederrs and mix thigs up"

^tell me how stocking the large fish in regs areas fixes this? still going to have a large portion of your license sales not happy about it.

 

[CRB]

I would like to see Kinzua Dam mentioned water is usually about 72* out of the dam in July August and September.

 

[NJTroutbum]

Brook trout fisheries in the state survive because of less pressure. Far fewer folks fishing them and even fewer chasing 7-8" fish for the table. But, if that's all that were available, they would get hammered just like the rest of the fisheries, and there is not a brook trout alive that will leave a redworm or cased caddis larva go by.

What I mean by the states trout streams are the average sized, wading at any point trout stream, that makes up most of our waters. Between fishing pressure & no C&R, they would get fished to death. Throwing things at the wall? Nope....I think history has proven that. Creel limits lasted for a while, but eventually, the fish are caught well beyond their ability to reproduce. Wild trout fisheries require C&R to stand a chance.

Unless, you're talking about larger bodies of water, rivers etc. Many western streams that are rivers to us. Waters that have ample holding and wintering water that can't be fished effectively providing "Safe Lies". But take a creek like the Tully, Fishing Creek or Spring Creek......stop stocking them....and allow creel limits.....the end is in sight.

I don't like it any more than the next guy....but it's reality.

 

[Longbow]

Hit the WC yesterday after it was stocked on Thursday. Saw some of the big fish right away. I wasn't the only one who wanted to take advantage of a beautiful day. The bite was on as I quickly caught fish. I went more downstream to get away from people. I ended up catching two trophy fish. One was a fat 18" rainbow that took me for a ride and the other was a very large brown slightly bigger but not as good of a fight, acted more like a bull. Overall a great day and the green weenie was king. I usually use that when fishing for freshly stocked fish.

 

[foxtrapper1972]

"I would do whatever i could do to help. If there are any groups, or clubs that are started that want the Lehigh to be a wild trout fishery id be way more than happy to jump on board"
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[DaveS]

I was interested in checking out the pressure on Loyalhanna last Thursday morning, plus I was even more interested in a piece of pie from Ruthie's Diner. Air temperature was mid sixties, overcast threating rain. Water was low for Springtime and clear. Conditions were perfect.

There were roughly 16-18 vehicles from The RT 711 Bridge down to just below were Mill Creek enters the project water. In the hour plus that I was there, I saw fishermen spaced fairly comfortably along the stream. The few guys clumped together, appeared to be fishing as a group. One gentleman I spoke with had gotten a few including one he guessed was 22-23". I saw exactly one fish caught.

Like acristickid, I cut my teeth flyfishing this piece of water. I remember fishing this stretch the first year it was designated as DHALO. I was so alone on the water, I thought that then Westmoreland Co WCO Don Hayatt, was going to jump out of the bushes and arrest me! Over the many years that I was active with Forbes Trail TU, I spent many days doing stream improvement work, float stocking, and of course fishing.

I have stocked state reared fish for the PAFBC aa well as Trophy Trout for FTTU. I can say without a doubt stocking has always brought a lot of pressure on the creek. And the DHALO section has always gotten a lot of big fish. In addition to the state and TU, Loydsville Sportsmen and Kingston Sportsmen's clubs have stocked fish as well as local businesses. Furthermore, it is not uncommon for large fish to be washed downstream from Rolling Rock Country Club, just a short ways upstream in Loughlintown. In fact, many years ago the State record Rainbow was taken from this water.

In my 30 plus years of flyfishing, Loyalhanna has never been a great stream, dependent on stocked fish, bordered by a four lane highway.
Hell, you can easily hear the intercom from a nearby supermarket while fishing. Yet, I can say, I have some nice days fishing there and shared that time with some good friends. But what it is, and hopefully always will be, is a nearby spot for a lot of anglers, some of whom will become passionate about fish, clean, cold water, and passing it on to others who will take up the torch after us.

By the way, I had the peach pie. It was huge and delicious.

 

[joebamboo]

When the stocking begins, the truck chasers come out of hiding be it C&R flyfishing only or the open water. I see more guys suiting up to fish than to help float stock!

Catching 20 t0 30 freshly stocked trout is something to brag about I guess!

 

[McSneek]

DaveS - nice post about the Loyalhanna. It and Mill Creek were my boyhood streams. I was a bait fisher back then but have many fond memories of opening day on Mill Creek and numerous excursions to the Loyalhanna. We used to fish the stretch around the rock crusher most often. Before Rt 30 had so many traffic lights we could get there pretty quickly from Greensburg.

 

[Mike]

We did angler counts and formal interviews on the Middle Branch White Clay yesterday. Counts over the approx 1.5 mile stretch were running about 25 -30 angler's per count. There was certainly room to move about from fishing location to fishing location, aided, of course, by volunteers' float stocking.

Of 42 anglers interviewed, only one did not wish to have the Keystone Select program expanded to other waters and, unlike the sentiment expressed here by some, there were no complaints that the stream was blown out or did not have the appropriate habitat for larger fish. In fact, in the interviews that I conducted, when anglers were asked to make any comment or express any concerns that they desired about PFBC programs, they most frequently said that this particular stream was beautiful.

I fielded only two "complaints" and both were questions about scented soft plastic lures. All anglers indicated that they would either fish the stream with the same or greater frequency as they had in the past.

At the times of the interviews the 42 anglers had caught a combined total of 82 trout with, as I recall, 11-12 being 14 inches long or longer.

Of course, the acceptance of this program may vary from stream to stream, but at this early stage on White Clay there were few, if any, indications of problems or negativity. For now, reception was positive by the anglers who were fishing.

 

[724flyfishing]

Mike wrote:
We did angler counts and formal interviews on the Middle Branch White Clay yesterday. Counts over the approx 1.5 mile stretch were running about 25 -30 angler's per count. There was certainly room to move about from fishing location to fishing location, aided, of course, by volunteers' float stocking.

Of 42 anglers interviewed, only one did not wish to have the Keystone Select program expanded to other waters and, unlike the sentiment expressed here by some, there were no complaints that the stream was blown out or did not have the appropriate habitat for larger fish. In fact, in the interviews that I conducted, when anglers were asked to make any comment or express any concerns that they desired about PFBC programs, they most frequently said that this particular stream was beautiful.

I fielded only two "complaints" and both were questions about scented soft plastic lures. All anglers indicated that they would either fish the stream with the same or greater frequency as they had in the past.

At the times of the interviews the 42 anglers had caught a combined total of 82 trout with, as I recall, 11-12 being 14 inches long or longer.

Of course, the acceptance of this program may vary from stream to stream, but at this early stage on White Clay there were few, if any, indications of problems or negativity. For now, reception was positive by the anglers who were fishing.

That's good to hear! I'm not familiar at all with that creek or part of the state but if you're getting positive response there, then I'd say that's a success.

By the way... Quick question... What is the official ruling on scented soft plastics in the DHALO sections? I don't use them but I know a lot of people who do and I always thought that was a unfair advantage. It'd be no different than dipping your egg fly in a mikes salmon egg jar to get that brine on it. At least how I look at it.

 

[Nate540]

Mike wrote:
We did angler counts and formal interviews on the Middle Branch White Clay yesterday. Counts over the approx 1.5 mile stretch were running about 25 -30 angler's per count. There was certainly room to move about from fishing location to fishing location, aided, of course, by volunteers' float stocking.

Of 42 anglers interviewed, only one did not wish to have the Keystone Select program expanded to other waters and, unlike the sentiment expressed here by some, there were no complaints that the stream was blown out or did not have the appropriate habitat for larger fish. In fact, in the interviews that I conducted, when anglers were asked to make any comment or express any concerns that they desired about PFBC programs, they most frequently said that this particular stream was beautiful.

I fielded only two "complaints" and both were questions about scented soft plastic lures. All anglers indicated that they would either fish the stream with the same or greater frequency as they had in the past.

At the times of the interviews the 42 anglers had caught a combined total of 82 trout with, as I recall, 11-12 being 14 inches long or longer.

Of course, the acceptance of this program may vary from stream to stream, but at this early stage on White Clay there were few, if any, indications of problems or negativity. For now, reception was positive by the anglers who were fishing.

I live less than 2 miles from this stretch of the White Clay so it is my normal fishing spot. I fished both Friday and Saturday. I have to be honest while it was nice to see the bigger fish I'm not so sure I prefer the larger fish over the lack of fishermen. I have always enjoyed being able to fish there in peace. I fish it year round and try to make it out at least a couple of times a month even in the coldest months. The thing that really bothered me was when I got there on Friday 4 full cars pulled in right behind me from Jersey. While out of state fishermen don't bother me as I fish out of state also it was the amount and what the had to say that did. As I was getting ready they asked me where to enter the creak so I asked if they had ever fished there before. One of them out of the 11 guys spoke up and said no we all live like 2hrs from here but saw it on the NEWS and had to come out. Really?!? The news. I guess my problem is that while now you can not keep the fish as soon as you can with the amount of fishermen there that small section will be striped in no time. It is what it is and I'm not totally against it just concerned.

On a side note Friday night in one of my favorite spots I hook into the largest brown I've ever even seen. It was a give and take of line for what seemed like forever. I thought I had tiered him out enough. I kneeled down in the water and went to net him as soon as he saw the net he bolted and snapped off my tippet. Not the end of the world but I would have loved to have gotten a picture of him. If I had to guess I would say it was every bit of 26" but I guess at this point its just a "fish story" LOL Overall I did pretty well landing about 12 fish All in the 12-15 range so no other "trophy" size fish. Although I did see several very big trout. Also saw quite a few dead trout in the water but I guess some die off is to be expected.

 

[Mike]

Whether or not good angler usage now translates into good angler usage come June 15 when harvest is allowed to start remains to be seen. I would certainly encourage harvest beginning June 15, as the name of the special regulation still in effect there is Delayed Harvest Artificial Lures Only.

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Because the only good angler usage is to come and harvest fish?
I'm sorry but I fail to see how it's relevant. Trout angler "usage/utilization " drops significantly after first day.

Let me ask you. If 100 anglers fished it everdau from now to June 15th, but then suddenly stopped on June 15th, did the stream get good usage when compared to other streams?

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

If trying to use larger trout to attract more angler usage and license fees is the goal, then removing them all each season seems counter productive. I remember you saying fish having the ability to holdover was not a requirement when selecting locations for this program. I also understand you plan to replenish fish each year, just seems counter productive to goal.

Now if the goal is to also get more anglers fishing after June 15th for trout, then you are doing this all wrong. Pick cold June streams and stock them on the 20th with these fish.

Problem is you guys cater to a majority that costs you more money than the trout program is worth.

 

[Van_Cleaver]

As someone who has watched development and sedimentation severely impact that special regs. stretch over the lat twenty plus years, I'm fine with the PFBC dumping big fish in there and concentrating more anglers as well, since I stopped fishing it several years back. There is much nice water in that drainage, though of course you have to wait till the season opens. I.M.O. most of the remaining big fish (that haven't been poached) will have moved out of there by opening day assuming a couple heavy rains by then. Therefore they will get utilized at least; not sure it will impact the no. of anglers in any way other than pre season.

 

[krayfish2]

Fish_tales,
PM sent.

 

[724flyfishing]

We fished the Laurel Hill select section on Saturday for something to do. First time I've ever been there. It was crowded but not nearly as bad as my previous Loyalhanna experience. There was a PFBC biologist there doing angler surveys. Very nice guy.

Anyways as far as the fishing report for there, we didn't do very good. I missed 3, my two friends each brought a decent sized rainbow to hand and missed a couple. It was cold and snowing pretty good so we didn't give it too much of a serious effort and left after a hour or two. The fish were pretty lethargic. That is a nice looking section of creek closer to the lake. I'm told it stays cold all summer and fish hold over pretty well. It looks like it would be a good place to dry fly fish when the weather warms up. So saying all that I would give that Select water a second try later on in the season but I would regardless if it was part of this program or not, and I'd still rather them invest more into stocking fish in the fall than this.

 

[Reeder]

I fished Loyalsock Creek At Sandy bottom this past weekend and had a blast. It is a beautiful stretch of water and has great hatches, and thanks to this program it has a pile of nice looking, strong trout. It is a nice change of pace from my local DHALO on Lycoming, which was fishing just fine with all of the holdovers until it was overloaded with 10 inch colorless rainbows not long ago. Now that's all you catch every cast and it gets old quick. Plenty of guys are fishing Loyalsock, but it is such a large creek that there is plenty of room. I will certainly be fishing it more all throughout the year and it won't be to harvest them, I will be releasing them all to catch them another day.

 

[Acristickid]

Not a select water - I drive by Indian Creek delayed harvest section yesterday and there were no cars in the lot. Didn't make it over to keystone select Laurel Hill water to see if there any anglers there. Nice day out.

The Laurel highlands waters seem a tad low to me for this time of year with this warmer weather hopefully we see more rain.