Is there an Update on SC?

Troutbert and All,

Here is the long answer. Good question about what is the position of the PaFlyFish.com. Please understand my view and mission of the site before you understand the stance on this or any topic.

This website is here to help foster a shared interest in expanding our knowledge, experience and most importantly our enjoyment for fly fishing in Pennsylvania. I have always viewed this as a community for people to voice, converse, educate and debate ideas as they relate to fly fishing in Pennsylvania. I really don't encourage the debate part, but it seems to be a part of any forum.

The site has no opinion on this or any topic. As long as there are people who enjoy fly fishing in Pennsylvania and want to share in that, I will do my best to keep this site up and running. This is our site not my site on views and direction. A long time ago I considered calling it Dave Kile’s PaFlyFishing Site. The thought of posting messages just to me on the forum sounded kind of foolish.

The site is about community and I am not some tree hugger out of the 60’s, actually far from that. I like fly fishing and think Pennsylvania is a great place to do that. I was very fortunate over 25 years ago to have some great friends introduce the sport to me and feel this my way of giving back.

Outcomes from the site have really surprised me well beyond any expectations that I had back in 1995 when I started the site. To hear about people meeting up to go fishing together, setting up Jamborees, and finding new friends across the country, that is what is all about. Not anticipated, but wow what a great thing to have happen. I have heard from many people that have gone fishing with someone they knew in other part of the state and it happened because of the site. I have been in some far trodden parts of the state sitting in some bar and have heard people talking about the site after a day of fly fishing. That is pretty cool to me.

The other surprise is the wide and varying opinions about fly fishing in Pennsylvania. Not that I have my head in the sand, but some people need to chill out. I was talking about this with to Maurice yesterday. We are talking about fly fishing folks. It is not gun control, abortion rights, or school prayer. Keep it in perspective.

Do I have opinions on this or any topic? Yes, but I am probably not as passionate as most, but I am more passionate than probably anyone about the mission of the site! There are a bunch of topics I don’t care at all about and others I care a lot: Conservation-yes as much as we can all support, Stream Reports – yes bring on more, SRC/DB – you guys are ALL crazed on this topic and don’t even bother with it anymore. I try not to voice my opinions because there is plenty of that to go around.

The moderators on this site, just like you and me have different opinions. Quite frankly we don’t agree on the topics either. On a couple of issues I know for fact the moderators are 180 degrees apart.

I’ll give moderators the same voice as anyone else; some are just a lot more vocal than others. The challenge is when does a moderator become member voicing an opinion and when are they a moderator representing the interests of the site. I am not sure the answer and I apologize if you feel have been personally harassed or attacked by any of us who takes care of the forums.

No one should be personally attacked or harassed on this site. We talk about this all the time as in our moderation circles, but I think a view or topic can be challenged, but never attack the person. It is certainly a gray area for us and that will always be our biggest challenge. I ask everyone on the site to treat each other with respect and if you can’t do that then you might want to moderate yourself out of the site. Save us the hassle. Please give us your feedback and we will do our best to keep it all in check for the whole site.

Some of you may or not know this but, we have been dealing with a variety extreme issues on the site over the last month and it has made things a little edgy. I really appreciate the moderators help in keeping this site one we enjoy coming to. This site would not exist without their help. The moderators and I are open to making this a better place and process. Please tell me what you need and we will do the best to figure it out. PM if that works better for you too.

The position of the PaFlyFishing.com is to go out and enjoy fly fishing in Pennsylvania!

Dave
 
tabasco_joe,

Knew about that set trigger stuff from reading web articles plus Alexander shot to miss Aaron while Aaaron shot to kill Alexander.

Would never challenge anyone to a duel; instead would wait to be challenged so that I get the choice of weapons - Streamers - Chuck and Duck Rules at 100 yards!
 
Excellent post Dave, that really puts things into perspective.
 
Quote:

The position of the PaFlyFishing.com is to go out and enjoy fly fishing in Pennsylvania!


Dave,

Why I think I'll do just that, go out and enjoy catching a few trout on Spring Creek , both Sat and Sun mornings.

John
:-D
 
The site has no opinion on this or any topic.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% on this. If the "web site" (Dave and the Mods) were to start taking "official" positions on issues and edit posts accordingly, the site will die.

I don't agree that debate is not the purpose of the site. I think that the debate on key topics is vital for a number of reasons. Most importantly that it provides a forum for people to hash out their arguements and come to a consensus... or not.

The activism that started here on the Big Spring Hatchery issue was extremely important to the resolution of that situation.

I'm glad that we keep bumping this issue up. And I hope that everyone reads this thread and contacts their legislator to express their opinons. Spring Creek is too important to this state's fishing hertitage and future to "hope for the best".
 
I think that most would consider the Game Commission to be the better steward of the Canyon if you look at the environmental history of both PSU and the Game Commission it would be hard not to agree. It is great however to see the views of others, that is how we learn. Thanks Dave for this site, it is great!!
 
Pad brings an interesting idea to all this. Someone can cause all the bravado they want, pound their chest and make a lot of posts. If you are not bothering to take the time and communicate your views to your legislators, then really what is your point! Do you really want to make a difference or are you just here to join the debate club? If I made you stop and think then I have probably harassed you all enough for the day.

The weekend is here, my suggestion now is go fishing with a friend or family member and enjoy the time together!

Dave
 
I see the PFBC filed eminent domain for land along Spring Creek near the site of the McCoy dam, what is that all about??
 
Troutbert,

I agree with you. My choice to manage the area in question would be the PGC. I would distrust them the least; PSU the most. With PSU in charge, there would always be pressure from different groups to develop or conduct some 'educational project’. And given the natural bias of the Educational-Government Complex – a constant effort to place unnecessary restrictions on various activities - like fishing and hunting.

Anti- environment – As long as the Forum allows one to post their position on an issue, it is not anti-environment. If they were anti-environment they could have deleted this post or told me to keep it on the Conservation Forum. Instead, it was brought here and left in the high traffic area.

But, you can take this to the Bank with respect to environmental issues: when it’s time to stand up to be counted, most will say nothing and many will jump ship. For example – a few months ago, on another site which now has closed its Forum, I followed the exchanges on a thread addressing and involving alleged sediment pollution on the LJ from some construction activity. The poster wanted to find out who was doing it. While some agreed with his position, some thought he was making a mountain out of a mole hill and should mind his own business. Reading some posts left me with the impression that the poster bringing the sediment pollution on the LJ to our attention was the guilty party.
From reading your posts, I know that you are active when it comes to protecting and restoring trout streams and the related habitat. On these efforts, I wish your allies and you total success.
 
Actually Jack you have continuously and sometimes with venom interupted conservation posts almost every time such a post has been made.
 
I have always questioned the one-sided, knee-jerk posts I see on any topic, not just conservation. However, I acknowledge that one-sided knee-jerk posts seem to occur most often on conservation-related topics. An opinion is not worth having if it cannot stand up to or tolerate scrutiny-- at least I see it that way. Would that others who have opinions see it that way too.
 
If you asked George Harvey who should be in charge of the canyon, he would tell you in no incertain terms.
 
"Actually Jack you have continuously and sometimes with venom interupted conservation posts almost every time such a post has been made."

Actually, Chaz, if you pay attention, Jack generally does pretty much what he says he does - challenge assumptions and play devil's advocate. If you come on very strong and one-sided (as certain posters, ahem, almost invariably do) then you increase the likelihood that you will get an argument out of him. I often disagree with Jack, but I don't think its fair to label him anti-conservation, and I think its frankly ridiculous to label the entire site that way.

On the actual issue at hand, my opinion is that the PGC would be a much better and safer steward of the SC canyon lands than PSU would be, based on everything I have heard. That ought to be the goal, if it can be achieved. If not, easements may be a better fall back position than no protection at all.
 
Previous post ,that should be uncertain not incertian. I think PSU has been Spring Creeks worst enemy and they have earned that reputation, certain folks (developers) would just as soon see the trout die out, then the public wouldn't scream about their pollution of the stream, either pollutants or thermal pollution. I know they have the George Harvey water on Spruce, wouldn't suprise me if they gave that to a retiring college president some year.
 
Jack, When I posted the message about the Brook trout DNA I posted the link, I am pretty sure you didn't read the study because your comment was something related to stocked trout surviving to spawn. That' wasn't even the point of the study if you read it you would know. Your comments with regard to conservation issues are as knee jurk as others are, in fact I can predict your response nearly every time. Read the study them comment on it, or don't comment at all. The whole reason I posted the message was so that every would have the study as a resource. This is only the latest instance. Your respnses to the post about McCoy dam, show you are not interested in the truth. I've kept informed about the issue, maybe not as much as some others here, but know enough not to trust our elected officials on this issue, particularly the representative from Centre County.
 
lj,

The Canyon - I am not familiar with George Harvey's position on this issue. What is his position?
 
Troutbert and all,

I'll weigh in on this. I've reread the thread post for post and have determined in my mind that Jack didn't do anything to elicit the kind of lashing you took on the site and the moderators. If the word "misleading" set you off, all I can say is WOW.

First of all, as for the moderators beind anti-conservation, well, two of them are past TU chapter presidents.

It is my opion that you derailed this post, rather than discuss it, you made it a rail against the site.

For the record, I sent letters to the legislators in my district, (one didn't know what I was talking about and the other didn't answer.)
I believe it is an issue worthy of consideration by all flyfishermen who visit Spring Creek. I appreciate you keeping up with it and sharing it with the board. I hope you continue to keep us up to date with the issue.

I also believe that you and I and everyone else here are entitled see these issues through the eye of the poster. In this case Jack saw some broader viewpoints than the movement. I disagree, but can look past others opinions to keep the greater goal in focus.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the child at the other table who talks too much.... :-D
 
Cynic The college killed the stream, Spring Creek was and always has been George's favorite water http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04130/313491.stm
 
LJ, is there some belief that the PSU cyanide spill was intentional? If not, why demonize the University so much? Seems to me, there is always a tension between development and natural resources. Do people think that area of the Commonwealth could survive without all the money that is brought into the local economy by the University? These issues are always one of balance, but if anyone thinks that all development will or even should stop so as to preserve our pleasure in fly fishing beautiful stream across the Commonwealth, they are living in a dream world.
 
Jack: I would be immensly proud if Penn State was the model and set the example of development while protecting the environment, as they should!
 
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