jdaddy
Active member
It's not just Regal. There a huge numbers of very expensive vices out there that are not "true rotary" vices.
It's not just Regal. There a huge numbers of very expensive vices out there that are not "true rotary" vices.
gfen
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I didn't want to degrade the thread with an argument, but I guess I'm going to... Explain to me how its quicker, coz I don't see it.
I'm making a bugger. Tie in my chenille and hackle, wrap thread forward.
On non-rotary, I take the chenille and wrap it around. Tie off. I take the hackle, wrap it around. Tie off.
On a rotary, I half-hitch the thread, swing the cradle, pull the thread long enough to drop into the cradle, then hold the chenille and turn the handle. Take thread out of cradle, push cradle away. Retract thread, tie off. Half hitch. Pull the thread, swing cradle back, drop thread into cradle. Turn handle. Remove thread from cradle, swing cradle, rewind thread, tie off.
Seriously, am I just doing it stupid wrong?
Answer me WITHOUT the use of a glorified Nor-vise advert video, please.
I'm making a bugger. Tie in my chenille and hackle, wrap thread forward.
On non-rotary, I take the chenille and wrap it around. Tie off. I take the hackle, wrap it around. Tie off.
On a rotary, I half-hitch the thread, swing the cradle, pull the thread long enough to drop into the cradle, then hold the chenille and turn the handle. Take thread out of cradle, push cradle away. Retract thread, tie off. Half hitch. Pull the thread, swing cradle back, drop thread into cradle. Turn handle. Remove thread from cradle, swing cradle, rewind thread, tie off.
Seriously, am I just doing it stupid wrong?
Answer me WITHOUT the use of a glorified Nor-vise advert video, please.
W
wsender
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Very true. I don't get it, personally. When you're shopping for a vise and have a certain price range in mind, I don't know why you wouldn't pick a true rotary over a non-true one. Maybe the other companies are concerned about creating competition against there other lines with a new one?
Granted it's expensive to bring a new product to market, it can't be that cost prohibitive, especially since there are so many other ones to draw ideas from.
Heritage-Angler
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You're not doing it stupid wrong - you're looking at the advantages stupid wrong.
How many times have you palmered material up a hook (non-rotary style), only to find that you left a gap, or your wraps were uneven? Then you have to unwrap it, or just settle for a sloppy tie.
OR....
You're wrapping multiple strands of peacock herl - the odds of you letting one slip out of your grip increase when you transfer the bundle to the other hand...
OR.....
You're wrapping hackle. It's easier to wrap without twisting the feather when you aren't transferring it from hand to hand, and you see the result of how it is applied at all times (because you're seeing the point of application at all times).
OR.....
You're trying to achieve constant and even tension on the material being applied. True- rotary makes that easier, resulting in a more durable fly. We all want that, but the trees don't care.
There's more than just speed involved, though the Norvise clan can make a valid argument about the advantages of that - especially concerning production tiers.
Of the so called "premium" vises, a far greater number of manufacturers have true rotary vises as their top of the line offerings (Renzetti, Dynaking, Law, Anvil, J-vise, Peak, Griffin, etc), as opposed to non-true rotary (HMH, Regal). Regal even tried to capture some of this market by introducing the Revolution, while still clinging to their tried and true clamp design.
Next time you're at the International Fly Tying Symposium, count the vises used. Last time I did that, Dynaking and Renzetti edged out Regal by a good bit. The vise that is regarded by many as the best available (LAW) - yup - true rotary.
I agree with WS - if you're gonna spend a bunch of $ on a vise, why not get the capability to use true rotary? Even if you don't use that feature all the time, at least it's available if you want to use it, or learn how.
gfen
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Fair enough.
Honestly, never. I turtle my way through flies.
As above, never. I've snapped a few on the hook point, but the times I cranked the handle I had a harder time of this.
Uhm, maybe? You might have me on this one. I'm not sure. Must revisit this tonight.
I can think of examples where this comes into play, floss and herl and the like, but honestly, my hand-off between hands doesn't effect this too much. I was about to say I'd try it on my next floss body, but I still hate that nonsense with the half-hitch and then cradles etc etc.
Watching guys throw the Norvise into a spin is a compelling argument for speed, but I think you've got to really need to tie ALOT in that style to make it count.
To be fair, though, its also "one more feature" they can charge more for, and in some instances I don't think its that much more cost-wise to make it compared to any number of fixed jaws.
Lots of premium cars come with satnav systems, and charge you the privledge of 1200+ for the equivilent of a $150 Garchomp. Doesn't make 'em better, it just means than can make a boat load of profit over something that some people find indispesnible.
Y'know, I think I might argue that..when I walk around, I'm just as astounded by the amount of guys who turn stuff out on the humbly designed Regal, as well.
If anything, I'd be willing to wager that as far as brands go, Regal reigns supreme, but in rotary vs. non, I'll concede that rotary wins out.
Squeeze clamp, hook comes out. Squeeze clamp, new hook goes in. That's why. Also, simple, unfettered access to the rear of the hook with no worries. My fat fingers need that sort of thing.
Anyone who wants to upgrade to a true rotary vise, here's your chance to sell me your Regal Medallion.
Heritage-Angler
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Squeeze, clamp, hook shoots out of jaws into oblivion, jaws chip, Regal gives you crap about how you don't know how to place hook in jaws. Maybe they replace them under warranty, maybe they don't... :lol: Regals apply the same pressure to size 24 hooks that they do to saltwater irons. No one else does this (except the Sunrise Regal knock-offs). Hmmmmmmm.
Seriously - you've been tying flies for what, three years now? You don't even OWN a Regal (I do). :roll:
Buying a vise is a personal thing. It's just as unfair to knock the almighty Regal, as it is to knock the advantages of true rotary tying. Folks need to decide what they want out of their vises, and make the choice that best suits THEIR needs.
A safe bet is to buy a decent, cheap vise, and use it until you figure out what you really want. The cheapie could then be relegated to a travel vise, used to hold flies while they dry, or given to another newbie just starting out. One might just find that their cheapie vise does all they need or want out of a vise, and then they've saved a bunch of $.
gfen
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So, you just buy the stainless jaws. Problem solved!
I've been trying to justify dropping the money on it for the whole time, I never should've gotten it, but whatever.
You don't want your Regal, sell it to me. Everyone wins! Chip the jaws a time or two to really lower the price, too, please.
No argument, go back and re-read my rather diplomatic feelings on it.
I swear, I get less nonsense out of you people if I just come out of the gate swinging, I'm gonna drop this kinder-gentler thing soon enough.
jdaddy
Active member
I like my Regal, but I have been tying less than a year so what do I know? It was not a matter of preference to me. It was a matter of having a $100 "cheap" vise in my hand at Cableas, walking into the bargain cave and seeing a Regal Revolution for around $150 and making what I feel to be a wise choice. I like the hook in/ hook out approach. Which brand is it that uses the orthodontist rubber bands for tension, then they break and you have to go see an orthodontist to get more rubber bands? I definitely wouldn't want that one.
gfen
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Griffin uses O-rings. Seemed stupid til I realized that if I broke one, any hardware store on the planet would have be back in action.
Heritage-Angler
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Bring it Slim - we'll just break out a bigger can of whup-azz for you.
Really, my Regal was a hand me down from my departed Uncle. He got me into tying when I was 12 years old. The vise was given to me when he got too sick to have interest in tying. It has a lot of sentimental value to me, but I don't use it much. I won't part with it, even though it is the least favorite of my vises.
