I Hate to Even Ask

troutbert said:
Is the gauge above or below the confluence of Cross Fork Creek?
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Using the latitude and longitude from the above screenshot it is south of confluence of the Cross Fork Creek at the north end Daugherty Dr.
 
It’s about a quarter mile upstream from where Deb’s Place used to be located.
 
Weikertgal said:
Penns is low, as low as recent memory. Yesterday I could have walked across it on my tip toes and not gotten my ankles wet at our favorite spot to put in. There were a few showers here and there but it has done little for the water level. I’ll take a temp Friday.

we were shocked to see two fishermen driving Their gear out in the Cherry Run parking lot yesterday. Unless they laid down and rolled around to intentionally get wet, I can’t imagine how they got so soaked. It was absolutely sweltering and the fishing had to be horrible and ill advised.
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Possible they were targeting WW species ?
 
I've seen that gauge on Kettle creek
When you turn into Cross Fork, drive past Kinneys bar and Debs Place, and on out the road for a few hundred yards.
Take the 1st right, which dead ends at the creek. There used to be a bridge there.
And I'm quite sure its downstream of the Cross Fork junction.

We still have a lot of summer left too
Pretty sad
 
Thanks for the info on the Kettle Creek gauge. The flow is 7.4 CFS today. That's incredibly little water for such a large drainage, including many tribs, such as Cross Fork Creek, Little Kettle Creek, Germania Branch, Billings Branch, Sliders Branch and many others.

Of course the water is low in many other streams in the region also. But Kettle Creek seems especially low. And I've noticed that in past low water periods.

The base flow/square mileage seems particularly low for Kettle Creek during droughts. If there are any hydrologists in the house, that might be something interesting to figure out.
 
troutbert said:
Thanks for the info on the Kettle Creek gauge. The flow is 7.4 CFS today. That's incredibly little water for such a large drainage, including many tribs, such as Cross Fork Creek, Little Kettle Creek, Germania Branch, Billings Branch, Sliders Branch and many others.

Of course the water is low in many other streams in the region also. But Kettle Creek seems especially low. And I've noticed that in past low water periods.

The base flow/square mileage seems particularly low for Kettle Creek during droughts. If there are any hydrologists in the house, that might be something interesting to figure out.
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I think it’s just locally really bad luck with missing the rain/Tstorms. Watch Kettle’s gauge after a big soaking rain. It’s peak is a much softer, shallower curve with a slower fall than most freestoners. It actually holds its water well, for a freestoner.
 
Nocktavius said:
Possible they were targeting WW species ?
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Of course it is possible. Once again to echo off of my first post, it doesn't matter what the anglers were targeting because we shouldn't be concerned with their actions...at least with THESE actions. They could target trout all July and August long in Penns if they wanted to.

1) They aren't breaking any laws
2) The catch rate when the water warms becomes so much lower that arguably one harms less trout fishing under such water conditions than when one catches and releases many trout under more favorable water conditions. For each trout hooked and caught there is a chance of mortality. Catch one or two and maybe they both die. Catch 100 and maybe 10 or 15 die, so even under more "ideal fishing circumstances" you have harmed the population more.

Live and let live. Life is better when you don't worry about small things that are out of your control.
 
1660559900565


And the NW blob is a mostly a wintertime, lake effect thing.
 
So a driest region of the state, on average, is also the farthest below average in the state.
 
It's also when it falls and how much is "wasted" in quick burst thunderstorms.
 
JeffP said:
It's also when it falls and how much is "wasted" in quick burst thunderstorms.
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Agreed. When the rain comes in fast, heavy downpours, it doesn't have the chance to soak in. Much of it just runs off quickly. The all day steady rain is what's needed in many regions. And we need several of these types of rain events to get streams back to a somewhat normal level.
 
Providing temps will be ok by next weekend, should one find fish in the typical places on Penns? Are they very migratory during high temps?
 
Depends what part of Penns you are looking at. Yes, they're pretty migratory. Coburn and the confluence with Elk/Pine is a major cold water source. If you are all the way down by Weikert and that area, I'd imagine the pickings would be pretty slim. Better as you go up, with Poe Paddy kind of iffy. They'll filter back down through as fall wears on.

But if you are gonna fish up towards Coburn, and the water temp is good, I'd expect them to be spread out throughout the stream in the normal holding water.
 
On the short term, annual departures from mean precip are not nearly as important as seasonal departures for stream flows. Obviously, we don’t want groundwater levels/base flows to decline or wetlands to dry up, but seasonal departures affect the here and now for farmers and much stream/river fishing.

I note that the northern Bucks Co blob is over Cooks Ck. Any wonder that the stream channel is wide in comparison to summer flows? This is why larger trout are pretty unusual in Cooks, at least they were prior to the dam removal near the mouth. I don’t know if the removal caused any additional larger trout to enter from the Delaware and swim upstream from the former dam site. I know that sea lampreys took advantage of it, which was a good thing (native to the drainage), and probably more white suckers too, but the blueback herring population was too far gone for too long to be naturally restored to Cooks.
 
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pcray1231 said:
Depends what part of Penns you are looking at. Yes, they're pretty migratory. Coburn and the confluence with Elk/Pine is a major cold water source. If you are all the way down by Weikert and that area, I'd imagine the pickings would be pretty slim. Better as you go up, with Poe Paddy kind of iffy. They'll filter back down through as fall wears on.

But if you are gonna fish up towards Coburn, and the water temp is good, I'd expect them to be spread out throughout the stream in the normal holding water.
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Wonder what, if any, such movement could have had on the slot limit study results.
 
Matt_Geiman said:
Providing temps will be ok by next weekend, should one find fish in the typical places on Penns? Are they very migratory during high temps?
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I think its temps but also water levels that bring them back. My guess is every year is a but difference. Based on a couple experiences at Penns, I think there may be mass movements if the temperature and water levels change quickly.
 
FWIW. The two brown trout migratory studies on the the little J revealed that the condition that correlated with BT movement was increased water flow, much more than temperature. However, these two studies were conducted in years when the water was not as low and warm as this year. IDK, I might expect the correlation with flows to be greater when water levels are lower.
 
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And the beat goes on! Some in the upper watershed but most of the tribs around Central area getting very little.
 
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