How Many would be Trout Fisherman today????

[afishinado]

SteveG wrote:
Afish, do you have data that backs up the claim that the trout stocking program costs more than the warmwater program? The warmwater program stocked 10x the amount of fish, albeit mostly fry and fingerlings. But, some of the warmwater species are harder to culture than trout.

You can go through and check the PFBC expenditures. John Arway stated in one of his newsletters that $16 or $17 more than half of the $30+ general license and trout stamp fees for is attributed to expenditures for stocking adult trout. Leaving the rest for all other expenditures by the PFBC.

 

[moon1284]

I fished maybe 2 opening days growing up. I looked forward to salmon season more than anything else as a kid. And I was able to catch lake run fish pretty much until opening day of small mouth bass season. I got into fly fishing because of the challenge and the desire to fish different places. I had probably caught dozens of kings, lake runs browns, steelhead, and lake trout before I caught my first stream trout (at age 14 or 15).

 

[redietz]

Not saying that stocking has no place in the scheme of things, but they were no factor at all in my being a trout fisherman. I came from warm water fishing, and have mostly fished for wild trout for the last 40 years.

 

[redietz]

afishinado wrote:

... the lion's share of the PFBC expenditures are related to trout stocking, which shortchanges the warmwater anglers that also pay for fishing licenses.

Which is why trout fishermen have to pay extra and buy a trout stamp.

Where the WW fishermen really get short changed is that many of the marginal streams for trout are good streams for smallmouth (I live 5 minutes from such a stream) and stocking them forces the WW fisherman to buy a trout stamp even if he isn't fishing for trout.

 

[FarmerDave]

Same here.

Most of my fishing in my early years was for panfish and other warm water fish. I thought everyone did it that way. ;-)

Got into trout fishing when I was probably about 24. I lived right on a trout stream. Correction, I lived on the second floor of a converted gris mill, right where it entered brackish water, so I actually lived above a trout stream. Stocked trout in that stream, but the browns and rainbows averaged about 15 inches. Brook trout averaged around 12". It was tolerable.;-)

Oh, I fished for trout before that, but mostly warm water.

I still like to fish other species.

 

[salmonoid]

I started trout fishing when I was 4 or 5, for natives in Lycoming County. In pre-teen and teen years, this type of fishing was supplemented and mostly supplanted by stocked trout fishing in the trout-oasis-agricultural-runoff-manure-pits, er I mean streams of Lancaster County. I went to college in arguably one of the better areas of the state for trout fishing, but I did not buy a license for any of those four years, because I had convinced myself at that point that stocking was ridiculous and unnatural (although I had not yet discovered wild trout). I then got back into chasing stockers in my early twenties, but by my late twenties, I had mostly transitioned to chasing wild trout. I'll still generally go out Opening Day, although in recent years, I've often spent the entire morning not fishing myself, but helping kids try to catch a few.

I think characterizing the anti-stocking crowd as advocating for the cessation of all stocking is probably not an accurate assessment. I see a lot of advocacy for the cessation of what I will term "stupid" stocking, which entails stocking over viable populations of wild fish. I'll extend that one step further to include the artificial surplus of fish that is created by the PFBC in streams that cannot support the quantity of fish they dump in. It's not sustainable, it's fake, and it costs a lot of money. Instead, I'd advocate for a reduction in stocked fish in marginal streams. Take as a metric any quality wild trout stream you fish. Consider the density of fish you see and catch on those streams. Now go to a marginal ATW on opening day. Compare the fish density there. Is it reasonable to see 4-10x the amount of fish in one hole that you would see on a Class A stream? Somehow, the PFBC has manage to equate fakeness with quality and they want to take my license money (and more of it) to maintain that facade for those who have bought into their definition of quality.

I don't support the cessation of stocking overall, but I would support that notion on streams with viable wild fish populations. And a resetting of expectations of what a quality stocked trout experience is on an ATW, by reducing the allocations of stocked trout across the board. I know it might sound weird, but a more natural stocked trout experience

 

[Chaz]

I would be, I've never really been a stocked trout guy. There are a very few stocked waters that I fish because they are very good fisheries, after that I wouldn't care much if stocking streams with trout ended, except that many fewer people would care about the streams.
To put it another way, if were only stocked trout and no wild trout I wouldn't be fishing in PA at all.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I was a bass fisherman long before trout. My dad took me out when I was 3 w/ spin casters and worms on the Conestoga. I hated trout fishing when I was a "tween" and teen. Even when we started fly fishing, I was resistant, and the first fly rod my dad got me he told me, "you can use this for bass". And I did. Then, when I was 17-18, I experienced my first hatch and rising trout, and that sealed the deal for me. They probably were stocked trout (it was on the FFO stretch of Kettle).

 

[GANGGREEN]

Eh, I'm not sure. I fished stocked trout as a kid, though I admit to not catching too many until I was a teenager who could drive myself and learn on my own (my dad wasn't a very good angler and my older brothers were in college or gone on their own). As a teenager and college student, I caught a LOT of stocked trout, but I was also an active warmwater fisherman and as an adult, I went away from trout for the most part for a lot of years, before finally turning back to them for the last 5-10 years (although I still fish warmwater more frequently). To answer the original question, I THINK I'd still fish for trout even had there been no stocking in PA, but I'm not sure. I agree with some of the others though, my beef isn't with stocking in general and I'm glad that they do so for those who enjoy it, I just wish they'd quit stocking over wild fish.

 

[wildtrout2]

Nymph-wristed wrote:
Lived for stockies as a kid too. We frigging camped overnight in Philly on the Wissahickon! Growing up in Philly and immediate suburbs...

Well, we didn't camp, but we'd build a little fire to keep warm on the banks of Mill Creek in Lower Merion. This was back in the early 70's, when they put in a lot of trout, considering the size of Mill Creek. Yea, me and my buds would help stock, then go back to where we knew there were trout and clean house. Back then I never missed an Opening Day!

So, I basically went from a truck chaser to a wild trout snob. It was the stocked trout that got the ball rolling for me though. It's all good.

 

[troutbert]

Zak wrote:

We hear a lot of 'they should stop stocking trout' banter here...[/quote

That's not true. There are very, very few advocates on here, or anywhere else in PA, that advocate stopping stocking.

Many people (including me) say quit stocking over wild trout. Which is a very different position.

If they quit stocking 500 trout in some brookie stream out in a state forest, that does not reduce trout stocking at all.

They now have 500 more trout to stock in some nice, larger water like the big water on Pine Cr, Kettle, First Fork Sinn, Driftwood Br Sinn, Bennet Br Sinn, Loyalsock Cr and a host of others.

The number of trout stocked is exactly the same as before. The difference is that you have MORE trout to stock in the bigger waters.

And you will have MORE native brook trout in the small stream than before.

There's an old expression "Less is more."

Not with trout. With trout "More is more."

 

[krayfish2]

Nobody in my family fished so I was on my own. As a kid, used to walk to farm ponds or local creeks to fish for chubs, bass and bluegills. Found fly fishing at 14 and had probably only fished opening day twice in 38 years of angling.

Before I could drive, my dad took me all over Spring, BFC, Penns, Letort and any other stream I'd read about. He'd just sit and watch. Paradise, Clarks and others were technically stocked trout by majority...so....I guess I utilized the stocked fish. With that said, wild fisheries were very limited so I really didn't have many options. Even as a teen, given the choice, I would seek out wild fish.

Today, I'll fish for trout in PA 3-4 times a year (Tully, Yough or Lehigh). I spend the rest of my free time chasing wild fish out of state.

 

[Zak]

That's funny Kray. My grandpa would do the same thing. Take me to the same streams as you did and just sit and watch. The artistry of fly fishing I suppose.........

 

[poopdeck]

I'm not against stocking and I'm not against stocking trout streams. I don't understand the stocking of cold water fish in a warm water creek. Seems to me resources would be better spent stocking warm water creeks with warm water fish and cold water creeks with cold water fish. I've also never understood the native trout thing. Those things are very cooperative and easy to catch. Come summer time when the water gets low and clear I don't trout fish so maybe it's more of a challenge then. Stock SMB fingerling in the warm water creeks and trout in cold water creeks and I will be happy.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

count me in as cutting my teeth on stocked trout, but in a neighboring state.
Of course I was an Uncle Josh "man (kid)". Mike's was for the amateurs! LOL

Typical progression: bait opening day and during the weekly stocking, followed by spinners throughout the year (In my early teens I had no idea about temperatures and trout), then a mix of spinning and flies, now flies only.

one thing to consider. Around the State College area, I cannot think of a "class C- type" stream that would fit the criteria of receiving stocked trout and be large enough to accommodate the large number of people who are interested in trout fishing. Unless you want to dump them into AMD streams. So the idea of only stocking C or lower and still provide the "breeding grounds" for future anglers may not be so easy. I'm with everyone on not stocking over Class A, but some kind of flexibility in regards to B or C should be considered.
As it applies to kids. I used to ride my bike to the streams I fished. My best estimation of these streams that I fished as a kid, as they stand now, is that they are probably Class B. Something to think about.

 

[JeffK]

I would fish for anything - it was just that there were a bunch of trout streams, wild and stocked, near me to caused me to be a trout fisherman. One of my favorite local small rivers was stocked, but was also a decent smallmouth stream and I actually preferred when the smallies started hitting. Variety has always been the spice of life for me. If I grew up near the ocean I would have been a saltwater fisherman.

I'm also in the camp that thought Opening Day was close to Christmas. I would never sleep the night before either. However, I soured on the crowds when I was 12. Me and my buddies, who didn't have waders, got to the stream at 6 AM to grab a good spot over an overhanging bank that held tons of fish. Just before 8 AM some adults waded right in front of us and we couldn't fish. Rather than avoiding Opening Day, we just moved to smaller streams where there were plenty of willing fish, but no crowds. I've been doing Opening Day surveys for the last 10 years and that is still the case. On some less famous streams I am hard pressed to find an angler and most are catching plenty of fish, while the popular streams are shoulder to shoulder and the fishing results are commonly poor.

 

[csoult]

Didn't fish when I was little, and went right into fly fishing for wild trout. So, I guess the answer is... count me as one who would be a trout fisherman without stocking.

On the other hand, without stocking practically none of us would be trout fisherman, because I think that at one point the wild/native population would have been wiped out. I could be wrong about that though.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

I fished for most of all species of fish one time or another but now only musky and big browns are the only fish that get me excited to fish these days.

 

[PennypackFlyer]

Since trout are not the only fish I catch with a flyrod.
STOCK ON :lol:


I really consider opening day a day of challenge. It is a day where God teaches patients.

 

[troutbert]

nymphingmaniac wrote:

one thing to consider. Around the State College area, I cannot think of a "class C- type" stream that would fit the criteria of receiving stocked trout and be large enough to accommodate the large number of people who are interested in trout fishing. Unless you want to dump them into AMD streams. So the idea of only stocking C or lower and still provide the "breeding grounds" for future anglers may not be so easy.

Bald Eagle Creek from near the headwaters down to Milesburg fits the bill. That's a very long stretch and it's a decent sized stream.

Also there are impoundments in Centre Cty where trout are stocked. And some of those are very popular. I went by Poe Lake one opening day and there were loads of people fishing there. Lots of parents with kids.

Young kids can easily fish places like that, while it's tough for them to stumble along streams. No need for the parents to buy waders for the kids, also. They fish from the bank.