Habitat projects

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silverfox said:
There most certainly is a children-only fishing area on Bob's Creek. It's right here: 40.216104063296726, -78.5601880411633 Do you need me to take photos of the signs this evening?

Now that I've caught you in that falsehood, I suspect that your reported catch rates are a falsehood as well. So tell us from your ledgers how many brown trout you caught on this day that you caught 45 brook trout. I bet you won't, because it will confirm the point that I made. Or you'll lie about it so it looks like I'm wrong. Of course, if you say you caught 45 brook trout, knowing how you like to boast about numbers, I highly doubt you'd admit to only catching 45 trout. Again, proving that brook trout have been severely reduced in numbers in this watershed.
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That was my first thought that he omitted the brown trout numbers lol
 
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what is the definition of insanity?
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Fish Sticks said:
Its quite obvious that on bobs creek there are multiple dewatered channels in the flood plain. These are far far away from these single thread, once deep prior to project failure, unnatural channels in many cases. Also there are blind channels that seem to come out of no where from the backside of islands that split the stream in two. They are formed by wood cutting off a channel and accumulating sediment in the upstream side.

This is all evidence that wood falling on the flood plain causes this stream to water and dewater multiple channels created by large wood dynamically. This is why you have a-lot of dry project reaches. The stream was and will be much more of a braided/anastomosing,shallower on average, multi channel stream rather than a deep incised plunge pool stream which is what the jack dams simulate.

This dynamic nature creating multiple shallower dynamic channels rather than single deep incised channel is the reason in fact these terrible structures failed.

there never would have been all those deep incised plunge pools the structures mimic LIKE I SAID lol
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Exactly! This is why Frank is way off base on the comment about there being deep pools elsewhere. The current state of Bob's creek is NOT "untouched by man" (another falsehood Mr. Semantics stated). You can see it trying to spread out in some areas where it hasn't been channelized by poor habitat projects (like giant piles of stacked rocks to try to keep it in a single channel).

You're right about the multiple dewatered side channels. They're all through that valley. Good for groundwater recharge if we allow the stream to spread out instead of trying to make it a canal full of plunge pools. But heavily braided little channels are of no use to "guardians" who want deep pools to dump buckets of yellow trout into.
 
silverfox said:
Exactly! This is why Frank is way off base on the comment about there being deep pools elsewhere. The current state of Bob's creek is NOT "untouched by man" (another falsehood Mr. Semantics stated). You can see it trying to spread out in some areas where it hasn't been channelized by poor habitat projects (like giant piles of stacked rocks to try to keep it in a single channel).

You're right about the multiple dewatered side channels. They're all through that valley. Good for groundwater recharge if we allow the stream to spread out instead of trying to make it a canal full of plunge pools. But heavily braided little channels are of no use to "guardians" who want deep pools to dump buckets of yellow trout into.
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“Stream guardians” another example of conservation washing fishing
 
6xAdams(Jones) said:
That appears to be the point now and historically - building open-air aquaria for put-and-take fisheries.
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FS can attest to the absurd number of stocked trout that are still there today (6 months after they were stocked). Including a fairly large yellow trout that came out of an undercut bank. No reason why they'd die with midday temps in August of 58 degrees. So the "take" side isn't happening. It shouldn't be put-and-take anyway.

All those stockers certainly help boost the TPH rate too.
 
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silverfox said:
FS can attest to the absurd number of stocked trout that are still there today (6 months after they were stocked). Including a fairly large yellow trout that came out of an undercut bank. No reason why they'd die with midday temps in August of 58 degrees. So the "take" side isn't happening. It shouldn't be put-and-take anyway.
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stocking that place is so financially wasteful . I bet it would meet for class A if they stopped for a few years. If PA fish and boat was willing to do anything for brook trout they could make brook trout c and r and let the masses have at wild invasive brows in that stream. But not wasting money and free common sense regulations are sadly not in their play book
 
Fish Sticks said:
stocking that place is so financially wasteful . I bet it would meet for class A if they stopped for a few years. If PA fish and boat was willing to do anything for brook trout they could make brook trout c and r and let the masses have at wild invasive brows in that stream. But not wasting money and free common sense regulations are sadly not in their play book
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I just looked, and the Pavia Sportsman's Club stocked 11,000 trout in Sections 3/4 (Section 2 is Class A). The state added another 4,900. Insane. Great TPH boost though.
 
bdhoover77 said:
It’s all about the numbers! You gotta pump those numbers up if you’re gonna play in the TPH racket.View attachment 1641232090
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I prefer to use the DFE/hr x grh / spm (dry fly eats per hour x gradient hiked / steps per minute) equation to gauge whether my day of fishing was worthwhile, but that’s just me.
 
Fish Sticks said:
Can some one with pictures of the childrens fishing section on bobs please post for poor Frank over here so he doesn’t get nailed by a WCO
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As soon as I catch you in a false characterization of Bobs Creek you start with the veiled personal attacks on me. Nice. Why don't you just admit that you don't know squat about Bobs Creek except for silverfox's slanted view?

This entire discussion about Bobs Creek has, to my knowledge, been about the section above Pavia (i.e., from approximately 1/3 mile below the mouth of Wallacks Branch Creek where there is posted ground to the extreme headwaters roughly 1/3 to 1/2 mile above the mouth of Diamond Run where a posted section ends access. There is no Kid's Section in this area. Before I stated that there is no Kid's Section on Bobs Creek I went to the Trout Stream map on the PFBC's website. It did not show any special regulations areas on Bobs Creek. Is the Kid's Section you speak of sanctioned by the PFBC or is it a private landowner thing? If it is a PFBC special regulations area then I stand corrected.
 
silverfox said:
There most certainly is a children-only fishing area on Bob's Creek. It's right here: 40.216104063296726, -78.5601880411633 Do you need me to take photos of the signs this evening?

Now that I've caught you in that falsehood, I suspect that your reported catch rates are a falsehood as well. So tell us from your ledgers how many brown trout you caught on this day that you caught 45 brook trout. I bet you won't, because it will confirm the point that I made. Or you'll lie about it so it looks like I'm wrong. Of course, if you say you caught 45 brook trout, knowing how you like to boast about numbers, I highly doubt you'd admit to only catching 45 trout. Again, proving that brook trout have been severely reduced in numbers in this watershed.
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So I see you've joined Fish Sticks in the veiled personal attacks. Same reason.

The number of brown trout I've caught on Bobs Creek is none of your business. My point of mentioning the 45 native brook trout I caught in July 2023 on Bobs Creek and the 15 native brook trout caught on September 10, 2022, in Wallacks Branch Creek was to show that your and Fish Sticks' characterization of both of these creeks is inaccurate.

By the way, I've caught some nice native brook trout in the jackdam pools on Wallacks Branch Creek. It is very likely that during drought these pools are critical to the survival of the native brook trout since the stream has very few pools of decent depth.
 
FrankTroutAngler said:
As soon as I catch you in a false characterization of Bobs Creek you start with the veiled personal attacks on me. Nice. Why don't you just admit that you don't know squat about Bobs Creek except for silverfox's slanted view?

This entire discussion about Bobs Creek has, to my knowledge, been about the section above Pavia (i.e., from approximately 1/3 mile below the mouth of Wallacks Branch Creek where there is posted ground to the extreme headwaters roughly 1/3 to 1/2 mile above the mouth of Diamond Run where a posted section ends access. There is no Kid's Section in this area. Before I stated that there is no Kid's Section on Bobs Creek I went to the Trout Stream map on the PFBC's website. It did not show any special regulations areas on Bobs Creek. Is the Kid's Section you speak of sanctioned by the PFBC or is it a private landowner thing? If it is a PFBC special regulations area then I stand corrected.
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It’s PFBC sponsored but not posted online. The signs are PFBC signs for children and disabled people, but they crossed out the disabled part because it’s really not safe for disabled people there.
 
FrankTroutAngler said:
So I see you've joined Fish Sticks in the veiled personal attacks. Same reason.

The number of brown trout I've caught on Bobs Creek is none of your business. My point of mentioning the 45 native brook trout I caught in July 2023 on Bobs Creek and the 15 native brook trout caught on September 10, 2022, in Wallacks Branch Creek was to show that your and Fish Sticks' characterization of both of these creeks is inaccurate.

By the way, I've caught some nice native brook trout in the jackdam pools on Wallacks Branch Creek. It is very likely that during drought these pools are critical to the survival of the native brook trout since the stream has very few pools of decent depth.
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If it’s none of my business how many browns you caught then why volunteer the brook trout number?

My characterization of Bob’s is not inaccurate. Several other members here have stated the same thing. Hopefully PFBC confirms this in the next year or two. Maybe then you’ll admit what you already know and refuse to confirm by posting your statistics that you deem so valuable except when it might prove a point you don’t want to admit.
 
FrankTroutAngler said:
So I see you've joined Fish Sticks in the veiled personal attacks. Same reason.

The number of brown trout I've caught on Bobs Creek is none of your business. My point of mentioning the 45 native brook trout I caught in July 2023 on Bobs Creek and the 15 native brook trout caught on September 10, 2022, in Wallacks Branch Creek was to show that your and Fish Sticks' characterization of both of these creeks is inaccurate.

By the way, I've caught some nice native brook trout in the jackdam pools on Wallacks Branch Creek. It is very likely that during drought these pools are critical to the survival of the native brook trout since the stream has very few pools of decent depth.
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And the EBTJV funded the removal of 5 of those jack dams on Wallacks to improve fish passage, so they must not be so beneficial to brook trout after al.
 
silverfox said:
If it’s none of my business how many browns you caught then why volunteer the brook trout number?

My characterization of Bob’s is not inaccurate. Several other members here have stated the same thing. Hopefully PFBC confirms this in the next year or two. Maybe then you’ll admit what you already know and refuse to confirm by posting your statistics that you deem so valuable except when it might prove a point you don’t want to admit.
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I've stated at least twice why I volunteered the native brook trout number.

I've never said that there aren't any wild browns in Bobs Creek (or Wallacks Branch Creek) or even that there are not a lot of them.

My fishing statistics ARE very valuable. One member on this site once compared spinner fishing to electroshocking. For example, if I were so minded I could tell everyone the farthest point upstream that I've caught wild brown trout in Bells Gap Run and its six tributaries above the reservoir that have fishable populations of trout. I bet it would surprise a lot of people who think they know the stream. However, since I'm against this project I have zero intention of doing so.
 
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