Guide tips

[shakey]

Hooker-of-men , you get it.
A true gentleman.

 

[ryansheehan]

Wow Hooker, that is perhaps one of the smartest, thought out posts I've ever seen on this site.

 

[troutbert]

When I go to a restaurant I tip 15% every time.

I always tip because that is the customary structure of compensation in that industry. The waiters are paid a low hourly wage, and get much of their pay in tips. Whether that is a good way for the industry to structure their compensation is another question, but at present that is the way it IS structured.

I don't hire guides. I'm not in that income bracket and also I prefer to explore on my own.

But if I would ever hire a guide, I'd just tip them 15%. If you just go with the standard custom, it's one less decision you have to make, one less thing to distract you from the fishing and enjoying the outdoors.

 

[poopdeck]

shakey wrote:

poopdeck wrote:

Holy Wowsers!

So glad you guys aren’t my friends in real life.

Tipping less than 20% (it used to be 15%) is like asking someone to work for free . Or worse. They may be losing money due to transportation or childcare.

My customers sometimes tip me 200%.


Don’t be the guy who is too cheap to tip ,but, still wants services.

Shakey I have a hard time understanding your logic. So I'm to tip you handsomely just because you MAY have childcare or transportation issues? That makes no sense.

Here's how I think...... if I have childcare or transportation problems I'm going to make sure I offer you service at the highest level so I can reap the highest reward (Tip).



For everybody in a tip based career there is a lesson to be learned here. You can make less money and name call those you seek tips from or you can make more money by working harder for larger tips. The fact that people who rely on tips need to be told this pretty much exemplifies the sorry state of customer service. Very disheartening.

I think you have made it abundantly clear what kind of person you are, and I am very glad that I don’t hang out with you.

Good day to you.

different opinions are not argumentative until taken to be an arguement. I'm sorry if you were offended by my different opinion.

 

[Swattie87]

As mentioned, I’ve only ever hired one guide, and didn’t have a great experience. I tipped him $100. I don’t remember how much the trip cost, so I can’t say what percentage it was and whether it fit into the standard 15-20% restaurant tip bracket, though it probably was pretty close. I just remember handing him a $100 bill when we shook hands and parted ways.

I’m in the middle on this. I don’t think a good tip should be expected, or automatic necessarily. But, better service should warrant a better tip. That’s how economics works. Providers who give better service will be more successful and be able to grow their business more effectively.

If you receive great service, you should be gracious, and be willing to tip more than 20% for it. But you shouldn’t feel obligated to pay 20% for s**t service IMO just because someone earns their living off of tips from their s**t service. If I do a poor job at work (insurance) you can rest assured I won’t get a good raise, or possibly worse, I’ll no longer have a job and way to earn a living at all. (Substitute whatever your profession is here, and I’m sure it’s likely the same. Why do servers and guides get immunity from this?)

Dodge/Chrysler builds unreliable vehicles IMO. I don’t feel obligated to buy them just because someone earns their living from building them. Toyota builds a better product, that costs a little bit more for a vehicle in the same class, but it’s how I choose to spend my money. Same thing here. A better product/service should justify a better price/tip.

One more thought. I don’t normally tip for takeout food. Kitchen employees are paid a wage that doesn’t account for tips, and the waiter/waitress/service staff (who do count on tips) aren’t providing any service in that process. That said, I haven’t eaten in a restaurant since last February, but have gotten a fair bit of takeout. I’ve noticed that many restaurants have tried to keep their server staff on to help with the increase in takeout orders versus in person dining. Since Covid started I’ve tipped 25% across the board on all my takeout orders. Why, because in the circumstances I think it’s the right thing to do. I enjoy the food, and want to help support them staying in business when Covid is done so I can eat in there again someday in future hopefully. FWIW.

 

[Mike]

Hooker, tipping for poor service just rewards bad behavior. The only punitive teeth that a customer has are in his or her wallet. Talk is cheap.

If one really wants to make a point about service one can place a handsome tip on the table just after ordering and then proceed to leave it there or start silently removing portions of the tip from the pile as service disappointments occur. This was suggested by a customer service consultant in a training seminar that I attended.

 

[tabasco_joe]

krayfish2 wrote:
Yo Matt,

Over the last couple of years, I've been running guided floats (part-time). I try to make every trip equal and give 100%... Rowing extra to get the client another cast in a fishy looking spot, having all flies for anything we might encounter, teaching knots, explaining rigs, helping with casting, explaining how to think like the fish, how to read water, provide a little history on fishing or the location we are fishing, tell stories/jokes, etc.

I've run a 2 person trip (working hard for 9 hours in the oars) and got a $30 tip. I've also run a single angler trip which ended up in a $120 tip.

I didn't think one trip was any better than the other but the clients viewed it differently. The 2 man trip were first timers that moved almost 30 trout on streamers but landed only 1. The single client landed 3 fish the entire day but 2 of them were basically personal bests. I've had one person tell me.....before we even met...that my job was to row, keep them in casting distance of the target and keep my mouth shut. I did what they asked and didn't really say much the entire day but kept them on fish. Now that I think about it, I also had a trip where the guy wanted to do a little bit of fishing and have his dog go for a boat ride. We stopped several times for the dog to play and swim. I'm a dog lover so I thought it was great and we caught a couple fish in the process.

Communicate with the guide you're hiring and set realistic expectations. Is a good day... catching X number of fish, catching big fish or making the day the best it can possibly be. I know that you're a very seasoned angler but remember that guide may have special tricks or techniques that are exceptionally effective on the water you are fishing. Can't hurt to listen and give it a try. I would encourage you to tip based on the effort you see your guy put forth. If he is a turd, tip accordingly. If you got skunked and tough conditions but the guy busted his ***, tip accordingly. Like mentioned in the article, there is gas licensing insurance food gear and the cut that the outfitter takes. The guide is out of pocket pretty deep before running the first trip.

I always consider the whole experience in judging a guided trip a success. I've had great experiences I wouldn't trade for anything but came up empty on game. (Hunting trips.) I value the learning experience as much or more than landing a couple fish. Fortunately I haven't had a bad guide yet.

 

[krayfish2]

Hooker.... spot on. Well said.

I think the public often has unrealistic expectations or can never be made happy...no matter what you do to try and please them. Feel free to look at the public freak outs all over youtube. Being in the service industry is a brutal way to make a living more times than not.

Personally, I think that if you have the financial means to hire a guide, you should have the financial means not to stiff the guide. That tip may account for 25-40% of what the guide makes doing the trip. It's like being in a relationship. You must communicate with the guide so you get what makes you happy. If you explain that you are vegan and they give you fried chicken for lunch or you ask him to keep the boat near the shore so you can fish the banks but they constantly lose control of the boat.... not good. This is where I'd expect to see the tip impacted. Not booking a return trip sends more of a message than stiffing them on a tip does.

 

[shakey]

Mike wrote:
Hooker, tipping for poor service just rewards bad behavior. The only punitive teeth that a customer has are in his or her wallet. Talk is cheap.

If one really wants to make a point about service one can place a handsome tip on the table just after ordering and then proceed to leave it there or start silently removing portions of the tip from the pile as service disappointments occur. This was suggested by a customer service consultant in a training seminar that I attended.

What an amazingly petty thing to do.

Cultured adults don’t think like this.

I am really amazed at some of the responses here.

 

[Swattie87]

Honest question, not trying to be a jerk:

Would you still give a 20% tip to a waiter or waitress who was inattentive, took an excessive amount of time to take your order, did not come to refill drinks, allowed your food to sit under a heat lamp or sit out and get cold before it was brought to you, left you sit waiting for a long period of time after your meal waiting for the check? I’m sure we’ve all had dining experiences like this.

Or, a guide who was late, didn’t put in an effort toward your trip, didn’t listen, didn’t offer advice or local knowledge, and didn’t seem to care that you weren’t enjoying yourself? Sure, you can’t control the fish biting, but you can control the effort and attitude you put forward to the client. I’d guess this doesn’t happen very often, at least in comparison to the restaurant example.

20% tips anyway?

Note that many, including myself, are also advocating for larger than 20% tips when excellent service is given. IMO the 15-20% range is standard for everyday “good” service. It can, and should, go up or down from that range accordingly.

 

[larkmark]

shakey- I hear you. Mind blowing isn't it?

I guess it s a fairly simple thing to me. I have only used two guides in my life and have gone with them enough times that we are really just friends now. I always gave them $100.00 each time and sometimes we caught fish and sometimes not. I found that establishing a friendly relationship with both these guys has been a great benefit over the years. I call them on a regular basis for reports and solid info. i cannot count the number of times they both have helped me without me spending money. So there's that to consider too. I now store my boat at one of the guides places for free. Just my take.

 

[krayfish2]

Swattie,

I hear ya. That's **** poor on the guides part. I would have still tipped him $50 or so...but....tell him that I was prepared to tip 2-3 times the amount and explain why he didn't get it. I'd think most guys would like to know what they did wrong, how they can make their trips better for the client, etc. Then again, maybe he doesn't care and just wanted to pay for his next rent bill or buy beer.

Everyone is entitled to a bad day. I did see a extremely popular guide rowing at full speed while his guys were trying to cast to rising fish all around them. Either there was a family emergency that they were trying to get to the takeout quickly or everyone in the boat had just had enough and wanted to get the F out of the boat. It happens. It doesn't take too many times of pulling a number 6 Stone fly out of your face before you start to get that glazed over look in your eyes LoL.

I want feedback from the client. I either email, text or check with the outfitter to see what they say about the day.

 

[moon1284]

I fished with a guide one time out west. I didnt want to get a guide but as I drinking beer while eating breakfast every morning he started drinking with me and my buddy on the 2nd day I asked him if he had an opening and he did.

The day was tough I think me and my buddy caught 3 fish total. We did 3 separate floats and the guide pounded beers with us. After the 1st float he took us to the gas station to get another 30 pack.

He had me throwing huge streamers on a 6 weight that I throw dries on, so I couldn't cast for **** and it was windy I probably stuck him in the head 3 or 4 times. He worked pretty hard and he drank a lot so he was a pretty cool guy I think we tipped him 100 or 150 bucks. It was probably our worst day fishing wise on the trip (and the only day we floated), but i had fun and I know the guide did too - he told us if we're ever back in the area get ahold of him so he can take a day off to fish and drink beer. That was I think 6 years ago and I haven't been back. If I do go back I'd look him up I'm sure he'd remember us.

Now that I think about it I used a guide Atlantic salmon fishing in New brunswick as well because it was the law. The guide was knowledgeable and a good guy but I more or less told him I'd tie my own knots choose my flies, etc. and told him to just let me know if I'm doing something egregious. He kept telling me I was casting way too far but I caught fish and once we got comfortable with each other we had fun. I tipped him well too. He did not drink and kind of gave me wierd looks when he saw me pull beers out of my waders. He did not invite me back to fish as buddies Lol, but he was a good enough guy.

I'd say minimum tip for a guide shpuld be 100 per day.

 

[ryansheehan]

Swattie87 wrote:
As mentioned, I’ve only ever hired one guide, and didn’t have a great experience. I tipped him $100. I don’t remember how much the trip cost, so I can’t say what percentage it was and whether it fit into the standard 15-20% restaurant tip bracket, though it probably was pretty close. I just remember handing him a $100 bill when we shook hands and parted ways.

I’m in the middle on this. I don’t think a good tip should be expected, or automatic necessarily. But, better service should warrant a better tip. That’s how economics works. Providers who give better service will be more successful and be able to grow their business more effectively.

If you receive great service, you should be gracious, and be willing to tip more than 20% for it. But you shouldn’t feel obligated to pay 20% for s**t service IMO just because someone earns their living off of tips from their s**t service. If I do a poor job at work (insurance) you can rest assured I won’t get a good raise, or possibly worse, I’ll no longer have a job and way to earn a living at all. (Substitute whatever your profession is here, and I’m sure it’s likely the same. Why do servers and guides get immunity from this?)

Dodge/Chrysler builds unreliable vehicles IMO. I don’t feel obligated to buy them just because someone earns their living from building them. Toyota builds a better product, that costs a little bit more for a vehicle in the same class, but it’s how I choose to spend my money. Same thing here. A better product/service should justify a better price/tip.

One more thought. I don’t normally tip for takeout food. Kitchen employees are paid a wage that doesn’t account for tips, and the waiter/waitress/service staff (who do count on tips) aren’t providing any service in that process. That said, I haven’t eaten in a restaurant since last February, but have gotten a fair bit of takeout. I’ve noticed that many restaurants have tried to keep their server staff on to help with the increase in takeout orders versus in person dining. Since Covid started I’ve tipped 25% across the board on all my takeout orders. Why, because in the circumstances I think it’s the right thing to do. I enjoy the food, and want to help support them staying in business when Covid is done so I can eat in there again someday in future hopefully. FWIW.

Swattie, keep in mind who takes your order, gathers it, checks it, bags it and rings you up. As you said they are not paid a wage for this, just something to think about.

 

[Swattie87]

Ryan - Maybe some lost in translation there...I think in most dining establishments (in normal, non-Covid times), the employee taking takeout orders, and running the takeout register is paid a wage that DOESN’T count on tips to be part of it. Sorry if I didn’t explain that well. I’d assume the kitchen staff boxes the food, and they’re not paid on tips. It’s typically just the servers/bartenders who are on a reduced base wage, with tips accounting for the remainder of it.

As I mentioned above, it’s a completely different deal with Covid I think, and hence why I’m tipping for my takeout orders right now. The local pizza place I frequent kept its waitress on to help with takeout orders, even during the times when no dine in service was allowed. She’s a good waitress and I tipped her well more than 20% on my usual pizza and pitcher of beer, split with my wife, on Friday nights. Our typical tab was $24 something and I signed the check for $32 each time. Except the week before Christmas when I’d sign it for $52. I wanted to support her (and the pizza place in general for keeping her on) during Covid so I’ve been tipping on takeout, though I suspect her wage was adjusted to account for the fact that she wasn’t serving. Don’t know for sure I guess. Either way, I’m happy to do it.

Admittedly, it’s tough to delineate this stuff. You could go to infinity and beyond about who and when you should tip. Does the kid bagging my groceries deserve a 20% tip on my $100 grocery bill? What about the kid stocking the shelves? What about the mechanic who fixes your car? Or the guy who sells you a car? Do I get a 20% tip for servicing your insurance claim payment? You see the point I’m sure.

In short, a tip should be expected and given when the person providing the service’s salary/wage is based, at least in part, by the tip. Servers, bartenders, and guides certainly fall into this category, no question. Hair stylists, food delivery drivers too. That being said, I don’t think a standard 20% should be expected. It should be ok to expect more for great service, and less for poor. Those who understand this, will provide better service, and work to improve their service if something is off. And that’s ok, and a good thing.

For reference, I worked at a golf course, with a restaurant as a kid. The only positions paid a reduced base wage accounting for tips were the servers, bartenders, and beer cart girls. My wage varied depending on what I was doing that day...Dishwashing in the kitchen paid the highest along with grounds crew duty. Hustling carts and working the pro shop paid the least. None of them paid as much as the bartenders, servers, and beer cart, after figuring in tips though. FWIW. Aside from one of the bartenders, they were all pretty good and I’m sure earned and deserved their tips.

 

[Swattie87]

Addendum to the above:

I could count on one hand the number of times in 6 years someone left a tip on the steering wheel of a golf cart after bringing it back with the glove boxes full of cigarette butts and spilled beer cans. It was gross, and though I wasn’t making much, it was far more than the base wage of the service staff, before their tips. I was fine with it.

Lesson applied to adult life...When I return a golf cart, I clean my own trash out of it before giving it back to the cart jockey.

 

[tabasco_joe]

This morning on the way into work I listened to a story on local news radio about a trend away from tips at restaurants.

I think there is a big difference between tipping of guides and service workers such as waitresses.

You can usually get references for a guide. Interview them before making a commitment. And have a better discussion with them before and during the trip about expectations. Also, the investment is larger. For you and the guide.

When my casting improves with large stoneflies I'll have to start thinking about a trip on the D.

 

[allan_s]

I have had the pleasure of a hiring a fishing guide a handful of times while on fishing trips. Never had a bad experience but not all guides are created equal for sure. They have all received a 25 percent tip or better.

I was part of a guided hunting trip where zero tip was given and the guides were given multiple chances, extremely nicely, on ways to make the trip better. They weren’t interested, didn’t know anything about guiding, didn’t know about hunting, just had access to decent property and thought they knew what they were doing. It wasn’t a cheap trip either. I was polite and talked to the guides away from the the other people on the hunt at the end of day one because there needed to be changes. The ‘guides’ wouldn’t hear out what we wanted and put zero effort into changing their strategy that wasn’t working at all.

I wasn’t rude but I did tell them why they didn’t get a tip and essentially no one is going to be happy to hear a client give them a huge list of issues that focused primarily on their lack of effort, knowledge and skill.

 

[maxima12]

I have guided for over 50 years. . Never took a penny, but was lucky to meet nice people!

Now days, i have keys to cabins, hanging in the closet. At will going!

Smart, payback when older, not in the beginning!!

a guide is not hard! Getting a bunch together is! Oh, i will take 1 or 2! Screw that, i want 10 or 12. It all depends on you.

Make a living at fishing, you better have another job! You know the one with retirement and benefits! Guide has none!

I was lucky, retirement, social security rolls in and being a guide, just plays an extra gas money, hot sandwich, smile, handshake, till we meet again!

here is the fact! 40 hour job, 2nd job, side job, and a fisherman friend! You will make it! I did it! Just a fisherman----out!

Always more to fishing than fishing!~ Maxima12

 

[wbranch]

tabasco_joe wrote;

When my casting improves with large stoneflies I'll have to start thinking about a trip on the D.

Hey Joe if you pinch the barbs down flat on those stoneflies I'll take you out on the D for a float. PM me if interested.