Guide ethics.

Some very good and interesting points being made. At the end of the day, respect and courtesy goes a long way. I’ve met a lot of good people streamside. More good than not so good.
 
I booked a float with the head guide at West Branch Anglers next week and I am bringing along some worms and eagle claw baitholder hooks just to see how he will react when I start using them. Plan to pull them out about halfway through our float.
 
I've been on a guy trip where the guy was fly fishing for the first time but he did bring an ultra-light spinning rod "just in case". After catching eight or nine on nymphs, he said I'm going to give this a little try. He then proceeded to put wax worms on and throw hook every fish for the next hour. I made it a point do not allow bait in the boat moving forward after that.
 
I am always amused at the difference in the way some of these guides portray themselves on websites and social media and the way they actually behave when you run into them on the streams. When you aren't a paying customer they can be unfriendly and even rude and unsportsmanlike. I had one recently give me a very hard time when I was out. He wasn't guiding at the time but was fishing and was certainly full of himself. Ego was over the top. This guy is a very well known guide. I have hired guides but I knew them personally as decent guys. I would never hire a guide without a personal recommendation. I hired a well known guide one time and he didn't show at the meeting spot. First time I didn't make a big deal. Second time and I was done. This is a very well known guy with books etc. I could tell a lot of stories about my experiences over the yrs with guides in drift boats and some crazy behavior by their clients and them. As for chumming for trout by a guide I think that it is unethical. Saltwater is a whole other deal.
 
I didn't like the chumming when I went out for Blues. It just made catching to easy. Some people who caught fish just left them on the deck for others....no catch and release....I decided I'd leave the boat last and added 6 Blues to my count. I shared them with neighbors so they wouldn't go to waste. Still was not thrilled they way it came to be.

On a trip out for RockBass - people were keeping everything even though there was a size limit. However it was not enforced.

So I no longer go on the sea trips.

These last few weeks i've been matching the hatch as best as possible. And reading the water as I watch for riser. There is no guarantee of catching.

As for guides I won't use them.

 
Guides are just like everything else in life....some good, some bad. I personally don't understand the rudeness or swollen ego stuff. I've met well known guides and have been disappointed while others were surprisingly awesome. Everyone's entitled to a bad day.

While guides might not be for you, hiring one can be useful to New fly fishers, to learn a new body of water, gain new techniques, learn entomology, learn some area history, for casting tips or just for company / entertainment. I've been with people that wanted help and others that just wanted me to steer the boat and shut up. If you want a boat ride , I'll do it but it's not the most fun day I've ever had on the water.

To each his own but I can't throw a blanket over all guides labeled "bad" or "good".
 
I went 30 years or so with the I don't need no stinking guide attitude, but my life has improved by hiring a guide once a year or so to fish new waters/new techniques.

Nothing is 100%, but in my experience guides that have done it for more than 10 years seem pretty good. The poor ones do wash out.

One evening when fishing the Brodhead I found a guide I knew with clients fishing the spot I had planned on. He came over and asked me to leave, but recommended a spot 200 yds away where I had a great night. Over the years he has set me up on some great spots, so I don't mind the request to move since the courtesy goes both ways.

The fishing with a guide is generally not an issue with me since 99% of the time a good guide knows the local waters infinitely more than I do. But I have been burned in my trout bum phase taking guides I was only acquainted with to new waters. I like most guides, but some are not ethical.
 
Good post JeffK. Pretty much how I feel.

If a guide i didnt know ever asked me to leave public water my reaction would be varied on a number of things.
Some good and some bad.
 
Never liked the idea of guides. Why? Make money for what you already paid for. Guides did not stock the stream, guide did not put the deer there. Guides, I always figured, took the guesswork, the walking, the search, out of the "DO". I can do nothing, hire a guide that will do for me what, I won't do!

Seems like guides are all over the place, in every aspect of life. They do what you do not want to do! Relay on others to do the hard work! Hard work has always seemed to make a strong mind!

Guides are like game cameras. Set it up and come a week later to find out what is going on! In the meantime, I sit on my couch with potato chips, a beer, good movie! Why explore, just pay for it.

I have been guided by silence, until guided by light!

Maxima12
 
Oh, boy, here goes.
There are a number of points to which I will relate. I may even step on some toes here. I just feel the need to respond to at least some of this.
First, most of you know I am a guide. Now, you all know.
Second, I am one of the ultimate spot-burners and I'm quite proud of it. Why? Because I've had too many encounters with people being upset with me having written magazine articles and a book on where to go and then those same folks seek every bit of written material from every source possible to learn everything they can on waters in other regions they want to fish. I believe that meets the definition of hypocrisy. Besides, even we who write about streams don't give out anything that would be interpreted as true secrets.
I can understand why some might be a bit skeptical about taking a guide friend to a favorite spot; however if it is a spot on a stocked stream open to he public that other anglers frequent it's not "your" honey hole. Yes, I've experienced someone who held a misguided opinion on this issue in the past. Sometimes I've got to wonder if some anglers look at public water as open to John Q. Public...but not __________________ (fill in guide's name).
I've been accused of some of the craziest "stuff" over the years and sometimes it ... well, it isn't pleasant. I'll leave it at that.
I set my standards very high as a guide. I was guiding yesterday and encountered a fellow angler using a spinning rod and lure. I purposely approached him and engaged him in light conversation. I wished him a good day when we parted. All anglers should be respected and given wide berth if they are practicing ethical fishing.
As for unethical practices - such as a guide chucking pellets - that isn't anything I'd approve of. I'd be tempted to say something if I'd witness that behavior on the stream. Just as I believe no guide should fish while guiding a client. We should do our fishing through the client. That way, when the client scores there are two of us enjoying the experience!
Finally, this business of clubs that operate a co-op nursery which receives trout from PBFC must keep in mind that they DO NOT own/control those fish. Those trout remain the PFBC's trout!! If the club feels differently they need to take a good hard look at their program. I sincerely believe that dates and locations of stockings by clubs/co-op nurseries should be published. They are just as much our fish as the club's fish.
Some guides deserve a bad wrap; but, not all. Please don't generalize. That's all I ask.
I'm done...for now.
 
The state does in fact provide the fry to the co ops. but their contribution ends there. The clubs membership dues and fund raisers provide the finances required to feed and provide for the upkeep of the hatchery. Therefore, notifying the members of the stocking dates in my opinion is justified. It doesn't take long for non members to know that the streams have been stocked and they are welcome to enjoy the quality fish that the co ops provide.
 
joebamboo, the state retains ownership of the trout you folk raise. In fact, the food you feed those fish is purchased through a PFBC program at the same rate that the PFBC pays unless you pursue purchasing via another means. In reality it's like the state has loaned those fish to your club. There is never a transfer of ownership. That means the trout your club raises is the same as the trout raised in a PFBC hatchery and that means all anglers are entitled to the same information about the stocking of those trout as you provide your members. To take a position otherwise is an erroneous position. I'm sure you are aware of the requirement to provide PFBC with info indicating stocking points for all of the co-op fish your club stocks. Unfortunately, there are clubs who choose to not provide the required data to PFBC. Hopefully, under the new PFBC Trout Management Strategic Plan there will be more accountability required.
 
OL's post 50 seems to throw out some challenges. However, I am not going to take the bait as I would have years ago. I once posted something on here about OL that the moderators, thankfully, took down immediately. I regret what I wrote at that time, so this time I am going to remain quiet about some of the things he wrote with which I disagree.

(Farmer Dave -- Aren't you proud of me?)
 
OL, we do not get our food from PBFC. We are a non profit organization and buy our food from another source. Yes, the fish are still "owned" by the state and we in no way profit from them. Want to know when we stock, JOIN. It is a small benefit for members providing the funds to keep the facility running.
 
rrt, I have no idea what I have done or said in the past with which you took issue. I know there are times when I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. I try to do right by both my fellow man and the trout. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail. I, as most others, am not perfect and I'm certainly not the best at anything I do. All I can do is do my best.
I'm sure that some have noticed I rarely post on PAFF anymore; however, this time I chose to not remain silent.
If you have some ought against me I'm always open to listening. One should always be open to discussion.
 
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