Getting dialed in with blood knots

[scattershot]

Hi all, I'm at the newbie end of the scale but am at the point where I want to stop buying tapered leaders and tie my own knotted leaders.

I've had a few goes with blood knots, and I have to say that compared with other knots this is relatively challenging for me. The main problem I'm running into is keeping the turns organized as I wrap and then tighten the knot to end up with a neat end product. When trying to hold and wrap lines of different weight it seems like the turns get a little all over the place and the final knot is pretty messy.

Is this something you just have to do a few dozen times to get good at it, or are there any tricks to make it go better?

 

[Dale49]

I can't hand tie a blood knot to save my soul, except for using a tool. On the stream, I connect tippet with a triple surgeons knot. Since I have fumble fingers, I find this knot easry to tie.

 

[Fishidiot]

Scatter,
Welcome to the PAFF Beginner's Forum.

Blood knots are tough and I don't really think there's any shortcut other than to practice (which you can do at home while watching TV or something). When you've mastered this knot it will make your fly fishing life much easier because not only will you be able to construct your own leaders but you can re-tie a new tippet every time you break off in the trees or on a stream bottom snag that takes the whole tippet (which happens a lot, even to experienced guys).

 

[scattershot]

Thanks for the advice. Dale, when you talk about a tool are you thinking of a nail knot tyer? I have one of those. Can you use them for blood knots as well?

 

[djs12354]

scattershot wrote:
Thanks for the advice. Dale, when you talk about a tool are you thinking of a nail knot tyer? I have one of those. Can you use them for blood knots as well?

You can use back to back nails knots to join leaders. I personally struggle a little with the blood know, but it becomes easier as you tie them.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

Buy a Dennision Leader Vise (Blood Knot Tyer). This handy little tool can be found at many fly shops and makes the blood knot childsplay. It works very well and is simple to use. ;-)

 

[bigslackwater]

I started tying my own leaders last year and its the best thing I've done to improve my fly fishing. The improvement was not using a hand tied leader, it was speeding up and perfecting my blood knot tying! Keep tying leaders and eventually you'll be able to crank them out pretty quick. When I'm on the stream now, I spend far less time tying knots and more time fishing.

 

[JG63]

Hmmm, I much prefer a factory leader with a loop on the tippet end. 9ft 4X is what I usually buy and whip a double surgeons loop on the point. Then I choose tippet (you can join 6X to 4X loops without issue) tie a double surgeons loop in one end and join the loops. If you are dead set on tying your own, go get some reel filler spools of your favorite materials such as flourocarbon or standard monofilament and go crazy with the myriad of formulas out there. The easiest variation on the blood knot is the version "invented" by a not so popular (on this site) old timer named Lefty. Just cross your sections together and tie an "overhand" knot with FIVE twists. Double the tag ends over like a square knot and tie FIVE more twists. You are now done. Like all knots, moisten with your spit. WITH THIS VARIATION, TIGHTEN ALL FOUR (tag ends and running lines) together until the knot is almost tight, then release the tag ends. Don't ever skimp on tag ends - I usually have about 4-5 inches. Trying to conserve material will just cause more waste as you will have to trim the curlicue end when the knot fails. Trim the tags after the knot is good and tight - it should squeeze your spit out into a little droplet on the leader. A little experimenting and practice and you will be able to tailor exact lengths according to your formula of choice. A super simple formula is 4 feet of 17#, 3 feet of 10#, 1.5 feet of 8#, and 1.5 feet of 6# with a loop for joining tippet. Color your !0# section with a highlighter if you need an indicator section. Happy tying! JG

 

[Dale49]

Scatter,

Not sure about a nail knot tool for tying blood knots but others may want to comment. I have 2 tools to tie blood knots (you can find several types in fly shops and on-line sites) and keep them at home. I will use these tools to tie sighter leaders and add tippet to existing leaders. When fishing, I use a triple surgeons knot to add tippet. For me, I'm not concerned about mastering hand tying a blood knot.

Dale

 

[dc410]

A double or triple surgeon knot is a great replacement for a blood knot and is generally much easier to tie while on the stream, particularly during fading light conditions. However, both the blood knot and the surgeon knot require attention when tightening up the knot to make sure that it all comes together properly. A little bit of saliva on the knot will help lubricate it and keep the mono from heating up when you cinch it tight.

 

[boychick]

You can substitute a surgens knot for the blood knot, but the blood knot is a better knot for a leader becuase it lays out straight. A surgens knot does not, both peices of leader material that come out of a surgens knot will be on an angle. It works, it is not optimal. The trick to tying the blood knot is making sure the loop in the middle where both tags go through is big enough to quickly and easily slipping the last tag end through. This can be done by pinching the the first tag and the end of the loop between thumb and fore finger as you wrap the second tag. The other thing that makes this knot easier is to make sure you have long enough tags to start with. This knot is always trickier with the thicker leader marterial used for the butt ends of the leaders. Practices in front of the TV and by tying your own leaders, as suggested above. This is how I perfected this knot. Also, look for animated knot tutoirials online; those help alot as your learning.

 

[Chaz]

OF all the knots you may use for tying leaders blood knots have the weakest holding power. I don't use the bloodknot, I use the surgeons knot. I don't have an issue with the surgeon knot not being straight if tied correctly.

 

[dc410]

I agree that both tag ends of a completed surgeon knot come out of the knot at a distinct angle, not at 90 degrees like they do on a blood knot. I never considered the position of both working ends of the surgeon knot to be any issue while constructing leaders. I agree with Chaz, the surgeon knot is stronger than a blood knot. I tie my WW and toothy critter leaders with surgeon knots for this reason.

 

[scattershot]

Thanks for all the comments, some very interesting ideas there. I thought I might try tying blood knots with a tool to see how neat I can make them (found a tool from Dennison on eBay), then will try to transition to doing them by hand. Will also try surgeon's knots to see how they compare.

 

[StarvinMarvin]

ok, make sure you have a spool holder with pressure, it'll make life easier. when i tie it after i do 5 wraps and bring that line towards me i stick it in my mouth then wrap the leader 5 times and pull the tippet end away and the hole becomes very clear and you can easily place the tag end right through.

 

[osprey]

There is ONE shortcut that i learned and it's the easiest way i.m.o. to tie mono to mono , the end product looks just like a Blood Knot but the method of tying is different , start by joining the 2 pieces with a square knot or some call it an overhand knot , trim the tags short , then tie the knot most folks tie to make dropper loops , 5 wraps , stick the square knot through the hole , moisten and tighten up and trim the tags , with a little practice you can tie this know without leaving the stream.

 

[PennKev]

ligature knot > blood knot

Easier to tie, IMO. Far less dexterity needed. Also seems to seat properly and more securely. Has been all I use on-stream for leader and tippet modification for the last 4 or so years.

Kev

 

[sandfly]

boychick wrote:

You can substitute a surgens knot for the blood knot, but the blood knot is a better knot for a leader becuase it lays out straight. A surgens knot does not

Wrong, a Double surgeons knot will lay off to side but the triple surgeons knot will lay straight everytime. The downfall some say is the bulk when tied, I have never noticed and after 30 years of useing the blood knot I switched to the triple for all my freshwater and most saltwater. It's also 100% breaking strength is also a great point meaning the line will break before the triple surgeons. I have been fly fishing for over 45 years now, scarey.....

 

[Gone_Phishin]

This is why I switched to furled leaders with a tippet ring

 

[PennKev]

Gone_Phishin wrote:
This is why I switched to furled leaders with a tippet ring

So you handicap yourself by using only one type of leader because you cannot tie secure line-to-line knots?