Fly Selection

[Pwigglez]

Next week I will be going to Pine creek fishing with my father. After checking the hatch chart, the following flies should be hatching:
march brown
gray fox
green egg sac caddis
sulphers
black stone
brown stone
large caddis
BWO
hendrickson
blue quill
blue dun
quill gordon

When fishing streams with so many species of insects, how to you decide what to target? I will be both fishing dries and nymphs. My intuition says to fish generic nymph patterns that cover a wide variety of species. For dries, is it just trial and error? As for size, do you change patterns before sizing down?

Thanks for all your help!

Paul

 

[MD_Gene]

You do have a lot of flies on your list. You are right to choose generic patterns. I fished the headwaters of the Allegheny, Kettle, and Penns last week.

Here's my recommendation:

Tier 1:
PTs
Frenchies
Hare's ears
Swing hendrickson wets

Of course if there's a hatch going on you should have all the right patterns. I heard that sulphurs were just starting at the southern most part of Penns late last week. I would be surprise if they were on Pine now but we have had some very warm weather.

Hope this helps.

 

[troutbert]

Bring all your generic flies. Then just budget some of your trip money to buy a bunch of flies at the fly shop when you arrive.

Just ask them to pick out 2 dozen or whatever number of good flies to match the current hatches.

No need to duplicate the generics, if you already have them, but it's worth spending some money to buy some hatch matching patterns.

 

[Pwigglez]

I have fly patterns that replicate those insects. I'm more interested in hearing what system people use to cycle through patterns and determine what fish are actively taking.

 

[Makee]

I would chose two flies and start with them. Maybe a PT and zebra midge. If you fish that for a little with no luck, change them out, go for something different than what you had on. Choose a different color and see if the fish key in on that. Change flies until you find what they are looking for.

 

[Luke]

Pwigglez wrote:
I will be both fishing dries and nymphs. My intuition says to fish generic nymph patterns that cover a wide variety of species. For dries, is it just trial and error? As for size, do you change patterns before sizing down?
Paul

Hi Paul, I think that MD Gene gave solid nypmh advice and I do not have much to add to that.

When there are rising fish it is usually not too difficult to figure out what they are taking. I would guess that half of the hatch chart will not actually be hatching in numbers when you are there; so an up-to-date stream report from a local shop will be invaluable. Once you have it narrowed down with stream reports, you should study the typical time of day that the activity occurs and this will further help you know what is likely when you are seeing rises.

If it is not obvious, I use a siene to collect some bugs from the top several inches of water. This will usually help me to confirm the patter and the size.

You can come to some conclusion about whether they are taking emergers or duns based on both rise form and observation of what is on the surface.

If is is near dark, a spinner fall should be suspected and that pattern tried. Again, a siene can confirm what is in the water.

 

[Luke]

To add to my comments...

If I am getting near takes but then last minute refusals, I usually know that I am close and will try smaller changes such as size or trying to change the way the fly sits on the water. Also could just require tippet adjustment to get better drifts.

If they are rising all around and completely ignoring my dry fly than it is time for a more significant pattern change.

 

[Pwigglez]

Luke,

That's some great advice. In my initial post I mistakenly said that I derived those flies from a hatch chart- I got it from the most recent stream report from the Slate Run Tackle shop.

 

[just_jon]

I never fish Pine in mid-late May without a bunch of #16 tan caddis emergers. I have had many days when the trout were feeding actively, but were not taking the most predominate hatching insects. The caddis emerger fished dead drift in or just below the surface has Been the ticket.

 

[JackM]

When you arrive, turn over rocks and observe what is happening under, on and above the surface. That should let you leave a couple of boxes behind and lighten your load.

 

[Pwigglez]

Thanks for the tip! They're now on my "to tie" list.

Edit: I have some tan bird of prey caddis's in size 14-18. Since those have a beadhead, they won't fish well right under the surface. Do you have a recommended pattern?

 

[troutbert]

Of that list, these will probably be the most important:
march brown
gray fox
green egg sac caddis
sulphers

The early season stuff will almost surely be over by next week.

But the bottom line is to LOOK and see what bugs are on the water, flying around etc, and match them.

 

[Fishidiot]

troutbert wrote:
Of that list, these will probably be the most important:
march brown
gray fox
green egg sac caddis
sulphers

The early season stuff will almost surely be over by next week.

But the bottom line is to LOOK and see what bugs are on the water, flying around etc, and match them.

^Good advice from Troutbert (as usual).

I'd add...take some time to see what stuff is drifting in the surface film. Oftentimes, you will see spent nymph shucks from the previous day's hatch, or from earlier in the day. These shucks can tell you whether there were caddis or mayflies recently and the nymphal sizes. When you encounter a tough riser, show 'em a nymph of the same size/shape as the shucks that has been dressed to float in the film.
Then don't miss the hook set.

 

[duckfoot]

Personally, I fish nymphs until I see bugs in the air and on the water, then I catch one and determine what it is.

I'm a big fan of parachute patterns myself when it's dry action.

 

[afishinado]

Pwigglez wrote:
Next week I will be going to Pine creek fishing with my father. After checking the hatch chart, the following flies should be hatching:
march brown
gray fox
green egg sac caddis
sulphers
black stone
brown stone
large caddis
BWO
hendrickson
blue quill
blue dun
quill gordon

When fishing streams with so many species of insects, how to you decide what to target? I will be both fishing dries and nymphs. My intuition says to fish generic nymph patterns that cover a wide variety of species. For dries, is it just trial and error? As for size, do you change patterns before sizing down?

Thanks for all your help!

Paul

Your intuition is right. Most FFers are under impression that success is based on selecting the right fly. It is rare that any fish will be locked in on one species of insect and ignore all others; especially nymphs. Check it out, if you talk to multiple anglers on a stream, and each will have success, all using a different flies. Talk to other anglers using the "right flies" yet they are having no success at all.

Reading the water, using good technique to cover the stream and keen strike detection is really the key. Fly selection is way down the list.

Use the hatch charts as a guideline. But you will find that many if not most of the flies listed are not present or active during your time on the stream. I often fish two nymphs, a generic/impressionistic fly and a fly I've observed or believe to be present at the time to start. I let the fish decide. Many if not most times the generic fly gets bit more often than the hatch matcher.

The same most often hold true with dries. Unless the fish are locked in on a mega hatch or spinner fall, rising fish will hit a well presented dry fly that's not a perfect match more often than not.

I would recommend being prepared with flies to match the hatch, but concentrate on technique and covering the water and don't sweat the flies.

Good luck.

 

[pete41]

Mr. Afish just gave you as good advice as you will ever get on the subject. Numerous books have been written on trout fishing with flys but the condensed version of all of them could be summed up with this "Reading the water, using good technique to cover the stream and keen strike detection is really the key. Fly selection is way down the list.".
The only thing I would add is to remember -they can see you before you can see them in most cases.Position yourself accordingly. Good luck.

 

[Pwigglez]

Thanks for the tips everyone!

 

[Chaz]

I take a little while to see if and what is hatching when I arrive on stream, then I match the hatch. Don't forget those flies all pretty much hatch during the day at different times, but it is very dependent on the weather.

If it were me, I'd not worry about Blue Duns and Blue Quills hatching, by next week they more than likely will be over. I wouldn't really look for Gray Foxes and March Browns, though the could begin between now and then, they hatch sporadically all day. Sulphurs in the evening.

Stones generally during the day, you can tell them from the other flies, by the obvious large wing of which there are 4.

I see a fly not included that is very important up there, Little Yellow Sally, they are hatching now up there, and pretty much everywhere they occur, and will continue all summer. I'f I were a betting man that would be the fly to hatch when nothing is happening, and even when there are bugs coming off.