Fly Fishing Elitism (from an outsiders perspective)

[Traveling Trout Co]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

As a little known but much hated (fair for the 1st 100 episodes) YouTuber who started out slinging' treble hooks from a spin rod, I have to say this openly. There is a serious problem with fly fishing elitism that permeates sites like this and trout fishing discourses in general.

Quick back story (that no one cares about, please move on to next paragraph). I started trout fishing in my late 20's. I didn't have an uncle or best friend or sage to guid me. I started out with an ugly stick, treble hook panther martins, and no whiff of a net, waders, wet hands, or ethical practices. My first videos are SO cringeworthy. Awful stuff guys. With that said, I was learning. As time went on, I bought a net, pinched my barbs, grabbed some cheap waders, and even went to single hooks. Nothing was ever good enough. As you grow and get better, the expectations from your audience get more onerous. With the ever shifting landscape of social acceptance, no matter what I did, it was not enough for the fly fisherman who were clearly 'better' than me.

As I slowly began to navigate the world of fly fishing, I started to notice something. In the fly shops. On forums like this. In the magazines like Trout. There was a subtle but clear undercurrent of 'othering' the guys who still used spinning reels and tactics. They weren't quite yet 'enlightened'. Sure, they caught fish and had fun, but they weren't like "us". This makes YOU and frankly US look pretentious. We are not better than anyone else enjoying the same recreational hobby, albeit doing it in a slightly different way.

Fly fishing is one type of fishing. Period. This idea that it's "THE" only way to fish is so unbecoming to our community. I used to be able to viscerally feel the contempt from fly fisherman when they'd see me on 'their' stream (ex. Cedar Run or Spring or Penns) while spin fishing. Maybe this is all in my head. But it isn't. You look down upon those who don't fish (or think) exactly the way you do. As a fly fisherman now myself almost exclusively (excepting salt water), I even catch myself sometimes looking down on the spin caster, but every time I catch myself and say, NO, they are just the same as me. And we need more of that around here.

What do you guys think? Are we pretentious DB's or am I way off the mark?

 

[Cznymph]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

As a little known but much hated (fair for the 1st 100 episodes) YouTuber who started out slinging' treble hooks from a spin rod, I have to say this openly. There is a serious problem with fly fishing elitism that permeates sites like this and trout fishing discourses in general.

Quick back story (that no one cares about, please move on to next paragraph). I started trout fishing in my late 20's. I didn't have an uncle or best friend or sage to guid me. I started out with an ugly stick, treble hook panther martins, and no whiff of a net, waders, wet hands, or ethical practices. My first videos are SO cringeworthy. Awful stuff guys. With that said, I was learning. As time went on, I bought a net, pinched my barbs, grabbed some cheap waders, and even went to single hooks. Nothing was ever good enough. As you grow and get better, the expectations from your audience get more onerous. With the ever shifting landscape of social acceptance, no matter what I did, it was not enough for the fly fisherman who were clearly 'better' than me.

As I slowly began to navigate the world of fly fishing, I started to notice something. In the fly shops. On forums like this. In the magazines like Trout. There was a subtle but clear undercurrent of 'othering' the guys who still used spinning reels and tactics. They weren't quite yet 'enlightened'. Sure, they caught fish and had fun, but they weren't like "us". This makes YOU and frankly US look pretentious. We are not better than anyone else enjoying the same recreational hobby, albeit doing it in a slightly different way.

Fly fishing is one type of fishing. Period. This idea that it's "THE" only way to fish is so unbecoming to our community. I used to be able to viscerally feel the contempt from fly fisherman when they'd see me on 'their' stream (ex. Cedar Run or Spring or Penns) while spin fishing. Maybe this is all in my head. But it isn't. You look down upon those who don't fish (or think) exactly the way you do. As a fly fisherman now myself almost exclusively (excepting salt water), I even catch myself sometimes looking down on the spin caster, but every time I catch myself and say, NO, they are just the same as me. And we need more of that around here.

What do you guys think? Are we pretentious DB's or am I way off the mark?

I have been fly fishing for a number of years. My dad started me off when I was quite young, and due to our proximity to a very well known trout stream, I began fly fishing almost exclusively as a young teenager.

That being said, I love fly fishing but despise fly fisherman. I recall an opening day of trout season many years ago, where I watched a local doctor and his out of town buddies stand along side a stream and smoke cigars while my friends and I fished around mid day. They spoke of the fun they had fishing outwest, and for a poor kid in rural PA, the places they mentioned might as well have been the moon. They had rods that cost more than my first car and just about every piece of equipment one could purchase from the orvis catalog.

They then proceeded to wade right in next to us kids, and crowd us out so they, rich doctors and lawyers who had fished places I’d only ever read about, could catch freaking stocked trout.

Based on how I saw those fly fisherman act that day, I’ve always perceived fly fisherman as a group that thinks their better than everyone else and they feel that should be held in a higher regard because of their preferred method of angling.

I don’t consider fly fishing to be more pure, I don’t consider it to be an art or poetry or whatever river runs through it BS you want to call it. At the end of the day, it’s fishing.

 

[Swattie87]

Just toss in a spin video now and again still to keep you humble. I’m mostly not joking.

 

[Traveling Trout Co]

Just toss in a spin video now and again still to keep you humble. I’m mostly not joking.

Just posted Manteo..

 

[riverwhy]

I don't know if I would call it an art or poetry or anything like that but there are many more layers of knowledge and technique to it than other types of fishing. That is what I love about it. Started in the fly-tying club in 9th grade and still learning. I have never felt superior to other fishermen. Well maybe euronymphers!
That behavior you describe is totally abhorrent!

 

[TimMurphy]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

As a little known but much hated (fair for the 1st 100 episodes) YouTuber who started out slinging' treble hooks from a spin rod, I have to say this openly. There is a serious problem with fly fishing elitism that permeates sites like this and trout fishing discourses in general.

Quick back story (that no one cares about, please move on to next paragraph). I started trout fishing in my late 20's. I didn't have an uncle or best friend or sage to guid me. I started out with an ugly stick, treble hook panther martins, and no whiff of a net, waders, wet hands, or ethical practices. My first videos are SO cringeworthy. Awful stuff guys. With that said, I was learning. As time went on, I bought a net, pinched my barbs, grabbed some cheap waders, and even went to single hooks. Nothing was ever good enough. As you grow and get better, the expectations from your audience get more onerous. With the ever shifting landscape of social acceptance, no matter what I did, it was not enough for the fly fisherman who were clearly 'better' than me.

As I slowly began to navigate the world of fly fishing, I started to notice something. In the fly shops. On forums like this. In the magazines like Trout. There was a subtle but clear undercurrent of 'othering' the guys who still used spinning reels and tactics. They weren't quite yet 'enlightened'. Sure, they caught fish and had fun, but they weren't like "us". This makes YOU and frankly US look pretentious. We are not better than anyone else enjoying the same recreational hobby, albeit doing it in a slightly different way.

Fly fishing is one type of fishing. Period. This idea that it's "THE" only way to fish is so unbecoming to our community. I used to be able to viscerally feel the contempt from fly fisherman when they'd see me on 'their' stream (ex. Cedar Run or Spring or Penns) while spin fishing. Maybe this is all in my head. But it isn't. You look down upon those who don't fish (or think) exactly the way you do. As a fly fisherman now myself almost exclusively (excepting salt water), I even catch myself sometimes looking down on the spin caster, but every time I catch myself and say, NO, they are just the same as me. And we need more of that around here.

What do you guys think? Are we pretentious DB's or am I way off the mark?

Dear TTC,

I'm probably not the guy to answer this question because I'm just some old dude who still fishes on occasion.

I prefer to fly fish, but I respect everyone who fishes within the rules and respects their catch. I rarely keep a fish and treat sunnies like brook trout as far as handling and care when in my possession.

Just be decent to all fish is all I'll ever ask.

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[dudemanspecial]

As far as elitism goes, I have never come across another flyfisher face to face that acted the way people do behind their online mask. The internet is a strange place where people act out in ways that I don't understand.

Take your deleted post for instance. You claim sarcasm. What I read was a weird tirade full of misinformation and conspiracies. Maybe you meant to be sarcastic, I don't know. I can only call it how I see it. Would you start talking like that to someone you just met in the parking lot on the river? If you did to me I would probably tell you I have to go and end the conversation.

I have come across many people that are ignorant to some basic universal rules of sharing the water with other anglers, but that isn't really what you are asking so that's a different subject.

 

[Traveling Trout Co]

As far as elitism goes, I have never come across another flyfisher face to face that acted the way people do behind their online mask. The internet is a strange place where people act out in ways that I don't understand.

Take your deleted post for instance. You claim sarcasm. What I read was a weird tirade full of misinformation and conspiracies. Maybe you meant to be sarcastic, I don't know. I can only call it how I see it. Would you start talking like that to someone you just met in the parking lot on the river? If you did to me I would probably tell you I have to go and end the conversation.

I have come across many people that are ignorant to some basic universal rules of sharing the water with other anglers, but that isn't really what you are asking so that's a different subject.

The fact that you personally utilize words like "misinformation" and "conspiracies" tells me a lot. Those are words that obfuscate instead of elucidate. If you would end a conversation with me before it began on a river, that's too bad for you.

 

[troutbert]

With my last post about Trout Unlimited leadership (SARCASTICALLY) being communist taken down by our site admin overlords, let me tone this one down. Side note, can anyone on here take a freakin' joke?

Step 1: Make nasty baseless attacks.

Step 2: When called out for your nasty baseless attacks, claim that you were joking, and make ANOTHER attack, that they don't have a sense of humor. The ole "Can't you take a joke" ploy. People know about that tired old scheme.

The problem isn't "elitists." The problem is that you're posting a lot of garbage. Try posting better stuff.

 

[jifigz]

All of these posts are filled with so many generalizations. Ain't nothing in life as black and white as we are making them seem.

Most people are nice to you in every day life. The majority of people are honest enough to be trusted, but there is definitely a percentage that aren't. And most people are mostly friends of the human race. There are some big generalizations for us all, too, but accurate I feel.

 

[5footfenwick]

Dear Traveling Trout Co,

I think it’s ingrained in the sport of fishing. It’s a progression that usually only heads in one direction. From push button to spinning gear to fly rod. That’s the mistake a lot make. Thinking it’s a progression upwards, rather than laterally.

I started fly fishing. Fly fishing only at an incredibly young age. At about 18 or 19 months old I was proficient enough to fish on my own. Cast, hook and land. By 4 years old I was a night fly fishing junkie. Regularly landing 20-24” browns. By middle school I was fishing with Lefty and learning from Flip and others in the industry inner circle. Wearing the name brand clothing and dressed like Joe Orvis. By 12 or 13 I was bored with fly fishing.

Then along came my school friends and spinning reels and rods. I was fascinated. Heck I sucked. I had so much to learn. As I began to get better at spin fishing and realizing the challenges it presented, I began to look down on fly fishermen. I developed spin fishing elitism. I couldn’t understand why adults would fish with something that was so easy to catch fish with. Fly fishing is for little kids I thought. Not very sporting and requiring very little skill.

Fly fishing is the latest and newest technology I thought. Bait fishing was the recurve bow of fishing. It’s cave man technology. Fly fishing is like hunting with a machine gun I thought. Just way too easy and requires almost no skill I thought.

Why did I think this? Why did I develop this spin fishing elitism? Because I didn’t know any better. I was a kid. I thought everyone only fly fished until high school age. And spin fishing was for the enlightened grown ups. If you couldn’t use 2lb test and find the perfect leaf to use as a boat and drift your cricket 50 yards down stream and pull him overboard just upstream of where that big one jumped. Well then you weren’t ethical.

As years went on and I matured I grew out of the Spin fishing elitism mindset. But I never forgot it. Because I thought I was progressing upward I looked down on those using easier tactics like fly fishing.

But I wasn’t progressing. I was moving laterally. Not upward. Just different, not better.

It’s human nature to want to believe that as you develop skills and put in time and effort that wherever you end up must be the peak, the pinnacle of the sport. This is a huge mistake. It’s your pinnacle, your elitism. It isn’t applicable to others. You can’t look down on others and their tactics, because you aren’t higher than them. It’s your mountain you created in your mind and then climbed
One of my favorite quotes as of late was Swattie’s “I don’t care how others are fishing or what they are using as long as it’s legal” (sorry if I butchered it Swattie) I couldn’t agree more. It took me years to get there and in the opposite direction of most.

Lately I’ve been getting interested in fishing in my pajamas with a push button reel on my 13 foot glass rod just because I never did it as a kid. So far I’m loving it.

Got this 34-1/2” channel a little while back. Made me giggle like a kid. But maybe that’s the point. Do what makes you happy. Blowing out someone else’s candle doesn’t make yours burn brighter.
~5footfenwick

 

[TimMurphy]

Step 1: Make nasty baseless attacks.

Step 2: When called out for your nasty baseless attacks, claim that you were joking, and make ANOTHER attack, that they don't have a sense of humor. The ole "Can't you take a joke" ploy. People know about that tired old scheme.

The problem isn't "elitists." The problem is that you're posting a lot of garbage. Try posting better stuff.

Dear troutbert,

Way to drop the hammer!

You are almost never confrontational. If your nerves were poked that is really saying something!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[riverwhy]

Dear troutbert,

Way to drop the hammer!

Step 1: Make nasty baseless attacks.

Step 2: When called out for your nasty baseless attacks, claim that you were joking, and make ANOTHER attack, that they don't have a sense of humor. The ole "Can't you take a joke" ploy. People know about that tired old scheme.

The problem isn't "elitists." The problem is that you're posting a lot of garbage. Try posting better stuff.

Step 1: Make nasty baseless attacks.

Step 2: When called out for your nasty baseless attacks, claim that you were joking, and make ANOTHER attack, that they don't have a sense of humor. The ole "Can't you take a joke" ploy. People know about that tired old scheme.

The problem isn't "elitists." The problem is that you're posting a lot of garbage. Try posting better stuff.

You are almost never confrontational. If your nerves were poked that is really saying something!
Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

The technique troutbert describes is dead-on. Seems like this has become commonplace since about oh 8-9 years ago.

 

[jifigz]

Dear troutbert,

Way to drop the hammer!

You are almost never confrontational. If your nerves were poked that is really saying something!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

That's what I was thinking. I've never seen Troutbert remove his gloves. I was shocked.

Anyone remember that old-school video game called Q-Bert? It was on ColecoVision. Troutbert's name always makes me think of that....

 

[TimMurphy]

That's what I was thinking. I've never seen Troutbert remove his gloves. I was shocked.

Anyone remember that old-school video game called Q-Bert? It was on ColecoVision. Troutbert's name always makes me think of that....

Yo jifigz,

I played Yoshi's Cookie on Nintendo One against my mom back in the day. She was tough to beat!

I'm a gamer for sure, but a video gamer not so much!

Regards,

Tim Murphy 🙂

 

[5footfenwick]

My technique is usually just try to make you guys laugh. Seems easier to talk about uncomfortable topics if I’m smiling.

The technique troutbert describes is dead-on. Seems like this has become commonplace since about oh 8-9 years ago.

sometimes it works, usually it doesn’t and sometimes my posts get deleted. It’s all in good fun. Dave has an amazing site here and I’m glad to be part of it. I appreciate Troutbert and TTC and anyone else who contributes on here. I’ve learned a lot here. I might not always agree. But as long as I am learning I’m happy.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Are there elitists out there? Yep.

Is there a growing sense that anyone with knowledge or education, even of a sport, is elitist? Yep.

People need to learn to teach better when they know something and be accepting of those that don't know something.

And folks who don't know stuff need to stop calling folks elitist who do know some stuff.

 

[jifigz]

I'm a gamer for sure, but a video gamer not so much!

I'm not a video gamer at all. I played some when I was a kid, though.

 

[mt_flyfisher]

I wonder if the elitist perception might be changed if a fly fisher said he fishes with an Ugly Stick instead of saying he fishes with a Winston Pure?

 

[jifigz]

I wonder if the elitist perception might be changed if a fly fisher said he fishes with an Ugly Stick instead of saying he fishes with a Winston Pure?

Over the years, fly fishing has become more accessible. I actually think elitist attitudes are on their way out. There is quality, cheap gear and lots of every day Joes in the sport.

I ain't got much fancy fly gear.