flourocarbon tippet

I'm with justfish. Fluoro isn't worth a damn. I use it for spanish and blues in the salt because they have great eyesight, and mouths full of teeth. I don't fish the salt enough to know if there's a better way, I also use it salmon and steelheading early in the year for abrasion resistance and visibility, but I'm totally unconvinced that it helps.

For trout, it's too expensive, sucks at knots, and sinks like a stone. Fail, fail, and fail.

So, in short, I've fallen for the hype when it comes to types of fishing that I don't know much about or do that well in. For trout, I've seen no improvements in results with the stuff.
 
Ok, first, while the refractive index thing may work subsurface, it is of no use on the surface. Sorry. The science says no on that one, have to sink the line for that to work.

The major difference for dry flies are:

1. Flouro is stiffer, which is usually bad for a drag free drift.
2. Flouro tends to sink (which may bring the refractive index thing back into play), mono is either buoyant or neutral.

But the bottom line is that it is very rare, in my experience, to have truly leader shy fish. It is very common to have drag shy fish, and you can reduce drag by going to a lighter tippet, lengthening the tippet, going to a less-stiff tippet (i.e. changing from flouro to mono), altering your leader, casting better, and any number of other things. George Harvey did an experiment once with Japanese beetles. He threw some in the water, and fish ate them. He glued one to a hook and casted, they wouldn't take it. So, he cut pieces of his tippet, and glued them to the bottom of the beetles, the fish took them normally. The point is its not seeing the tippet that matters, its whether the thing floats naturally. I obviously can't say thats the situation 100% of the time, but neither can I say I've ever come across a situation where I thought it wasn't the case, and I have fished the Letort.

I can see where there could be occasionally advantages of flouro in the subsurface game. But dry flies, no way, and especially not when you get to those small flies and need the softest tippet you can get. If you're using 6x flouro and getting lots of refusals, you'll improve as much going to 6x mono as you would to 7x flouro.
 
But Charlie Meck has a different story:

”Almost immediately I began catching trout In an hour I released seven heavy brown trout measuring up to 20 inches long. Meanwhile Bryan and Ken had not caught one trout. We sat down on the bank overlooking the pond and tried to figure out why these two skilled fly fishers had nothing to show for an hour of fishing. They were both skilled fly casters and both reached the brushy bank on the far side of the pond with the same degree of accuracy that I did. They used the same pattern that I used—a Chernobyl Cricket. After a minute or two Bryan and Ken looked at my tippet material and both blurted out almost in unison: "What’s that tippet material?" Both anglers used regular 5X tippet material. During that successful hour I had used a 5X fluorocarbon tippet from Orvis called Mirage (You can click on Orvis in my photo section and order this leader material.) That tippet material seemed to be the only difference in our approach to fly fishing that morning.


I tore off a 2-foot piece of 5X fluorocarbon tippet and gave one to Ken and another to Bryan. They both tied on the new tippet material and began casting. Within an hour Ken and Bryan each caught seven huge brown trout on that new rig. Does flourocarbon really work? You bet it does—especially on or in slow, clear water! After that episode that day we hurried a few miles to Tom Harmon’s Orvis Shop in Sheridan, Montana, and bought every spool of 4 and 5X Mirage he had in the shop. Do an experiment to prove to yourself that flourocarbons are less visible. Place two, three, or four different 4X leaders in a jar and attach a weight like a small bolt or nut to each one. Make certain one of these is a fluorocarbon and the others are not. Put holes through the lid of the jar and add water. Now look at how well you can see the leaders. I did this experiment before a group one day and everybody complained that one of the leaders in the jar was a smaller diameter because they couldn’t see it as well. That one they couldn’t see as well was the fluorocarbon.”


http://charlesmeck.com/a19990800.html
 
I understand that the refractive index doesn't come into play when the fluoro is on top; however, I've had days where I fished terrestrials on mono, could not get a hit, then changed only the tippet and started catching the fish that refused my fly previously. Maybe my tippet was sinking just enough that it became invisible but didn't create drag problems. Either way, I've had fish refuse the same dry fly and then take it once I switched to fluoro. I spent my college years studying science, but sometimes things cannot be explained by science alone.
 
at least one "pro" sees it my way ;-)
 
It seems that everyone has anecdotal and theoretical evidence. I'd bet it just comes down to whether you tend to be cheap, skeptical, etc. I'm a cheap skeptic, so I guess that explains my position.
 
Afish,

I am really hesitant to believe any endorsement a famous person makes. Let's face it they are endorsed to make up stories about how great products are. Orvis I am sure is cutting him a check to include that in his article or book. I am with JayL....cheap skeptic.
 
Good old Lefty Kreh praises the daylights out of tackle and lines he would never touch if he wasn't sponsored by them.
 
pete41 wrote:
Good old Lefty Kreh praises the daylights out of tackle and lines he would never touch if he wasn't sponsored by them.
Click to expand...

The SRC too.
 
I carry both mono and fluoro. I usually use mono for dries and fluoro for nymphs. Besides lower visibility, something that I don't think was mentioned is flouro is a lot tougher (abraision resistant) than mono. Also, I've messed around with both to test knots and I see no problem with flouro holding most knots.
 
If you take a piece of 5x fluro and 5x mono and stick it in your fish tank you'll see there isn't much difference. If you take a fish weighing caliper and tie a knot to it and pull you'll see fluro tends to break at 50% of what it is rated for. I've tried both.
 
JustFish wrote:
If you take a piece of 5x fluro and 5x mono and stick it in your fish tank you'll see there isn't much difference. If you take a fish weighing caliper and tie a knot to it and pull you'll see fluro tends to break at 50% of what it is rated for. I've tried both.
Click to expand...


What type of knot were you using and what brand of flouro? I've landed 10-12 lb steelhead with flouro as well as many large trout. I use Orivis Mirage. Improved clinch knots suck and that could be the problem. I generally use a triple surgeons knot for the tippet knot, and a knot call the "fishermen's knot" for the fly. I tested it agianst mono and do not have an issue with knot strength. I find flouro much more abraision resistant than mono, which is very useful for nymphing the bottom. Also the fact that it sinks helps when nymphing along with a little lower visibility in the water.
 
I use Mirage as well. It is excellent. Caught a really good fish on #5 tippet, really good fish and I can't say I would want to change it up.
 
I use the 6x and 7x Mirage and have caught trout over 25 inches out of Lititz Run. Didnt play them too long and rarely get broken off. The stuff is great :)
 
afishinado wrote:
JustFish wrote:
If you take a piece of 5x fluro and 5x mono and stick it in your fish tank you'll see there isn't much difference. If you take a fish weighing caliper and tie a knot to it and pull you'll see fluro tends to break at 50% of what it is rated for. I've tried both.
Click to expand...


What type of knot were you using and what brand of flouro? I've landed 10-12 lb steelhead with flouro as well as many large trout. I use Orivis Mirage. Improved clinch knots suck and that could be the problem. I generally use a triple surgeons knot for the tippet knot, and a knot call the "fishermen's knot" for the fly. I tested it agianst mono and do not have an issue with knot strength. I find flouro much more abraision resistant than mono, which is very useful for nymphing the bottom. Also the fact that it sinks helps when nymphing along with a little lower visibility in the water.
Click to expand...


by salvelinusfontinalis on 2009/3/16 16:42:49

I use the 6x and 7x Mirage and have caught trout over 25 inches out of Lititz Run. Didnt play them too long and rarely get broken off. The stuff is great


Afish,

I admit I didn't try the triple surgeons knot. However, we'll still have to agree to disagree. I don't think fluoro is needed. I catch wild fish on tough streams with mono........where is my motivation to pay more for tippet when the cheaper one is working just fine.

Here is a good example of fish not being leader shy. I fished the LLH last summer for tricos using a 4x leader tapered down to 6x mono. I caught seven fish that morning. This is a stream that the fly shop promotes the fish being leader shy and having to use 9x-12x tippets. They obviously weren't leader shy that morning!! All I am saying is I feel it is more about the drift rather then the leader IMHO.:-D :-D

Sal,

Sorry but I'd have to see it to believe it.
 
Justfish,

As always, on this site, it's great to see what other guys do. We all know or should know there's a million ways to catch a fish and none are really right or wrong....just different.

Certainly no "need" to use flouro. It works okay in some situations, and I agree the price is a little hard to justify.
 
Well search my pics and look at the fish. Come to Lititz and fish with me and if I land a big boy do i get a prize?

p.s. Full flex rods make all the difference.
 
I can see "full flex" rods making a huge difference. The Cabela's rod that I picked up off of your brother has an incredible amount of flex compared to my White River 3wt, both 6' rods for all intents and purposes. That "full flex" certainly will help to protect the tippet and absorb some of the loading.

That makes perfect sense to me...
 
salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Well search my pics and look at the fish. Come to Lititz and fish with me and if I land a big boy do i get a prize?

p.s. Full flex rods make all the difference.
Click to expand...

Maybe I will........I am using mono though! :)
 
Its a deal ;-)
 
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