Fisheries Management Area 6 - SE Pa.

The Yough's inability to support any or a significant wild trout population has nothing to do with the planting of hatchery fish, but rather has to do with a number of factors, and as I understand it, primarily the lack of spawning habitat and the fluctuations in flows that are a consequence of the dam's primary purpose as a flood control mechanism.
 
Stocked trout may not be the factor but i'm sure it does have some affect. But if you stocked less fish and put money into creating and expanding spawning habitat then it will help to bring more wild trout to the Yough. Also fluctuations in flows can not be used as a clear reason why wild trout can not survive. There are many tailwaters with fluctuations in thier flows that support amazing populations of wild trout. You could also try and petition to get the dam to have more normal releases. I think there are many things besides these we could spend money on to improve the Yough as well instead of spending it on stockies.
 
There is an ongoing effort to gain cooperation with the Corps with regard to the release regimen and some experimentation with improving spawning habitat, but at the risk of more criticism from people who think that improving fly fishing opportunities for themselves is a noble public service project, I think it is a bit of tilting at windmills. A release plan that takes into consideration the interest of those who use the tailwater for coldwater recreational fishing is a reasonable goal. A release plan that attempts to turn the Yough tailwater into a wild trout fishery is pie-in-the-sky dreaming. Wild trout live where they can and thrive where conditions are conducive. I don't think you have to study fisheries science to understand that.
 
by JackM on 2007/8/8 14:53:31

There is an ongoing effort to gain cooperation with the Corps with regard to the release regimen and some experimentation with improving spawning habitat, but at the risk of more criticism from people who think that improving fly fishing opportunities for themselves is a noble public service project, I think it is a bit of tilting at windmills. A release plan that takes into consideration the interest of those who use the tailwater for coldwater recreational fishing is a reasonable goal. A release plan that attempts to turn the Yough tailwater into a wild trout fishery is pie-in-the-sky dreaming. Wild trout live where they can and thrive where conditions are conducive. I don't think you have to study fisheries science to understand that.

Jack,

I don't think it is pie in the sky dreaming. If the Yough is not capable of being a wild trout fishery then the money would not be spent on the things you said above that it is. If they couldn't reproduce why put in spawning habitat. Ans yes you are correct that wild trout live where they can but the main reason they can't live in many places is because of what humans have done. I don't try to improve fisheries just for fishing I think it is important to improve them for all fish. If streams capable of producing trout where worked on we would probably have many more miles of streams that support wild trout fisheries and yet some never would. Just because you belive nothing can be done dosen't mean there isn't anything that can be. Of course if you did we wouldn't have anything to debate. :-D
 
Squareteil.
We did have different results. I was standing 3 feet from Boyer and we were on a cold water seep. Every trout in about a mile was glued to a little slice of thermal refuge. The water was very warm....and it was warmer that Pine.


Also,
"I think there are many things besides these we could spend money on to improve the Yough as well instead of spending it on stockies."

What is inherently wrong with trout stocking???

And if you start changing the streams would you not be displacing other transitional fish? And IF the public is more geared towards warm water fish, then would you not be doing them a great harm by changing it to a cold water fishery?

Seriously what are you going to do for the wild trout streams???
The best thing you could do is LEAVE THEM ALONE!!! Enforce the riparian buffers and be done with it.
 
Here is a news article from 5 years ago about the spawning project. I think there are some Chestnut Ridge TU members that post here. Maybe they can update us on the experiment:

Redd dawn TU chapter puts spawning trout to bed
By Gregory Sofranko
For Arts and Adventure
Friday, August 23, 2002


Imagine for one moment that you leave your parents, your friends and your home for a fantastic job. After a few years, you decide to return home to start a family.
Your tiring journey ends by discovering everyone and everything important to you is gone - vanished for good.

This happens to hundreds of trout that make tireless journeys to what they believe will be suitable spawning habitat. Upon arrival, they find creeks filled with large rocks void of small gravel vital for reproduction.

One group of fishermen set out to put that problem to bed.

Armed with buckets, sledge hammers and steel reinforcing bars, members of Trout Unlimited's Chestnut Ridge Chapter recently installed eight spawning beds or "redds" in the distilling basin of the Youghiogheny River.
Through their efforts, the volunteers hope to provide trout with better opportunities for success in spawning.

"There are a number of big fish caught here in the fall and nobody is stocking them," said Tom Shetterly of Trout Unlimited's Chestnut Ridge Chapter.

"We figured the trout were coming back to spawn."

He said fish are more than likely coming back to the cooperative nursery where they were raised 12 to 16 months earlier. Trout unlimited established the hatchery in the distilling basin in 1998.

Shetterly said the nursery produces about 10,000 trout each season.

The fish are released throughout the year, mostly in the Trophy Trout section of the Youghiogheny River, a few miles below the hatchery.

Shetterly said Trout Unlimited decided to create the redds because the distilling basin lacks small gravel necessary for trout to spawn.

Cecil Houser, manager of the cooperative nursery unit of the Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission said fine gravel is needed to protect the trout eggs.

He said as female trout dig depressions in streambeds with her tails, gravel particles are swept into the current and washed downstream, taking with them fine sediment that can attach to the eggs and cause them to die.

Once spawning beds are cleared out, only clean gravel for the eggs to safely attach to for protection are left.

The spawning beds made by the Trout Unlimited volunteers artificially provide this prized gravel.

The redds, crafted from two-inch by four-inch boards, are eight square feet in size.

They are placed in fast-moving water and covered with small gravel that is one to two inches in diameter.

Gary Smith, a fisheries technician for the Fish and Boat Commission, said water quality and temperature also affect success rate for trout reproduction.

"Here in Pennsylvania, we have one of the worst acid precipitations in the world," Smith said.

"But the fact that trout can survive year round with the bottom release from the reservoir shows the water temperature doesn't seem to be a problem."

Houser said it is common for stocked trout to become acclimated to their surroundings and spawn the year they were stocked in creeks that can support fish year round with cool water in the mid-50 degree range.

Cold water was a problem for the two youngest men in the work party the first week of the project.

"I was in there four hours last week up to my chest with no waders," Mark Kovacs of Uniontown said.

"I got out right when I lost consciousness," he said joking with his construction partner, Tom Shetterly Jr. of Grindstone.

As they waited for more gravel and spawning boxes to be sent out to them in a small boat, the duo continued working hand-in-hand - one holding a six-foot piece of rebar to pound the holding rod into the creek's bottom and the other tirelessly swinging a five-pound sledge hammer.

The rebar was run through the corners of the spawning boxes, pounded into the creek's bottom and bent to keep them secure.

Eventually the spawning beds were in place and the duo sipped sodas stashed away in their insulated waders as the scorching sun beat down on their backs.

After a short break, a boat with a dozen buckets of gravel was pulled across the current with a long, yellow rope by the pair of bed makers.

Both men swung their upper bodies in a perfect rhythm as if to the beat of music while reaching for buckets from the boat and dumping the precious loads of rock into the spawning beds.

Twenty-five tons of gravel were painstakingly transported in this fashion to cover the spawning beds with at least six inches of stone.

Shetterly says he is excited to come back in the fall and hopes to discover fish taking to these man-made spawning beds.

"It's one of those things we really don't know if it will work," Shetterly said.

"We try to emulate nature as good as we can and see what happens."



 
I think that the Yough would be about the last stream I would stop stocking in PA.

People get all excited about the sucess of wild trout management out west and think that it will apply to eastern waters, tailwater and freestone, that are warmer, dirtier, and have acidity problems compared to western streams. I am not convinced. Would say the Yough or the South Holston be the Yakima River if they stopped stocking it? I doubt it....

If PA were to stop stocking entirely, we'd all have less places to fish, fewer fish, especially big ones.

What needs to be done is take a couple of promising streams in each district each year and stop stocking them, see what happens, and move on if unsucessful. Evolution, not revolution....
 
OH,
Isn't that what the brook trout enhancement program is all about?
 
Isn't that what the brook trout enhancement program is all about?

Yes, streams that have the proven potential (streams you see a fair amount of natural repo) would be the first I would stop stocking. There are plenty of those to work on before moving on to man-made trout streams like the yough.
 
Yes, I think that terminating any of the rare instances of stocking directly over Class A populations is the first step. The next is to identify streams that are Class B or C that have a reasonable possibility of being decent wild trout fisheries and assess the limitations that are inhibiting the stream. If improvments or regulations show a reasonable possibility of enhancing the populations to recreational levels, then stop stocking and make the neccessary adjustments and monitor the stream. These mini-experiments can be used to build a knowledge base for future stream assessment decisions. For each stream that is improved in this manner, it would be equitable to reduce trout production or planting levels by the amount of stocked fish that are "saved" in this manner by the cessation of stocking. This process may take years, but it is a step in the right direction. I will note, however, that I believe even if this program were carried out diligently, it would be unlikely to result in a very dramatic reduction of stocking or a very dramatic improvement to wild trout opportunities unless the state coffers were opened wide and a stack of blank checks available for the types of stream improvement projects that would be needed on most of the streams under consideration for them.
 
The new commissioners will not propose eliminating the hatchery program. So that tattered strawman can be laid to rest.

They will propose some shifting of hatchery trout away from wild trout streams to non-wild trout streams. A very modest proposal.

Just inching PA a leeetttlle bit closer towards the mainstream of modern fisheries management.
 
well i would think that restoring the natrual range of wild brook trout should be number one on the list. but western pa was not included in that natural range.....so i would belive the creating wild brown trout fisheries to be the best and easiest option in those watersheds. i cannot speak for the yough...but anytime we can stop stocking a stream,once a wild trout fishery is created, is the best option. it allows those stockers to be moved to another stream. or we can cancel those fish altogether...making more money for habitat restoration. again i know nothing about the yough...so i could be way off base.
 
Sal,

Just one question for ya, Brook trout aren't native to SW Pa? News to me, always thought that they where native to all of the Applachian Mts, as far south to Georgia.

As for the Yough, I think it has two problems in becoming a vaible wild trout fishery. One being the meat fishers at the tailraces who "kill their limit" where the redds where installed. The secong being the two warmwater tribs @ Confluence, especially the Casselman with its AMD problems. We get that one cleaned up and who knows.
JH

PS. I'm not a Fisheries Biologists, so I don't know anything. :-D
 
The spawning gravel improvements on the Yough is a step in the right direction as is the belif that we need to stop stocking over some of the Class A streams that still stocked over even though the fish commission says they shouldn't be. Second to make any step forward some of the newer techniques in fisheries managment need to be employed by the fish commission. This would namely be the stoping of sampling just at bridges where the highest fishing pressure is. I think in the coming years as some of the older fisheries people begin to retire and as younger people move in the fishing in PA will greately improve as they bring new ideas to the state. But as I said before the mentality of the public needs to change as well. Great fishing dosen't come from a big white truck.

Sal,
I'm almost positive the natural range of the brook trout is in sw PA.
 
I can't be sure that gravelling the tailrace area is really a step in the right direction. It may be just be a poke and hope. The program was written up in the article I posted nearly five years ago, so the results should be available to consider. I hesitate to call the effort a waste because it probably was worth a try as success could mean that the experiment could be repeated in other areas where spawning might be encouraged.

Also, there is no need to be almost positive that brook trout are native to Southwestern Pennsylvania:
 
No brookies in SW PA? There are brookies at least as far west as Chestnut Ridge (See page 86 on your Delorme Atlas)
 
Nice map Jack. It is sad to see all of that red in PA though and I'm sure the grey is ever expanding. So sad.
 
well yes i stated that wrong my bad. i meant to type that they are not as prevelant in swpa as in the rest of there native range. ya caught me. the gray area mean expirated. sorry i typed my point out wrong. either way......i would expect the future of swpa wild trout angling to b wild brown trout.
 
Since most of the streams in SWPA are on the acidic side and nearly all freestone with acid rain as their prime source of water, I think that brook trout will remain the dominant species in SWPA streams that can continue to sustain wild populations.
 
Surprise, the Yough has never been a wild trout stream isn't a wild trout stream and unless or until the flows of cold water become more consistant will never be a wild trout stream.
The difference between the Delaware and the Yough is that the Delaware has always been a wild trout stream and nearly every tributary from Trenton North have wild trout in them. The Delaware has very little impact from coal ming compared to the Yough, it is a reasonable clean river compared to the Yough, and the Delaware tribs have excellent trout populations.
Listen to what Mike is saying,
 
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