fallfish confuse me

[Bamboozle]

I don't really know the difference or if there is a difference between what I catch and "fallfish" but I gained a whole new respect for them a few years back when I encountered HUGE chub nests in Little Pine Creek.

I figured any fish that could pick up that many rocks of that size could kick my a$$ if I let my guard down.

While they have saved the day a few times on some of the creeks where I encounter them, I don't like the croaking sound they make when I go to release them.

It sort gives them away as chubs and keeps me from BSing someone downstream that I just released a trout. ;-)

 

[RLeep2]

>>But Spring time white suckers really aren't bad, just bony.>>

I think I had this conversation here with somebody else a while back, but who knows? Some mornings when I first get up, I have to check my driver's license to see who I am today.

Anyhow...

We always got around the bony thing with spring suckers by grinding and pattying them with some bread crumbs and doing them in a cast iron skillet. Flip em just like burgers

Pretty good eating.

 

[krayfish2]

Chubs and fallfish are pretty unique though. They will sip #22 olives, hit a #2 mouse pattern or attack a 4" stickbait. Very opportunistic feeders. In general, the fight is poor....kinda like hooking an old gym sock.

 

[jifigz]

krayfish2 wrote:
Chubs and fallfish are pretty unique though. They will sip #22 olives, hit a #2 mouse pattern or attack a 4" stickbait. Very opportunistic feeders. In general, the fight is poor....kinda like hooking an old gym sock.

I think that you're nuts. Chubs fight rather weak but fallfish are awesome fighters. As someone mentioned above with regards to the Delaware I find them in the Juniata in all types of water. Fast currents, riffle drop offs, to slow pools and slack water areas. You are right they feed on mayflies and Caddis etc, minnows, hellgramitea, crayfish, and about anything else. I'll never complain about a 15" fallfish on my line. I've also never ever had the "breakfast sausage" issue with one either.

 

[sarce]

Ha I remember a few past debates on here about their fighting abilities. I've always been firmly in agreement with what Krayfish said above. They're wimpy and I never understood the past statements that they fight harder than trout of similar size. Trout have more stamina and it's not even close in my experience. Still fun? Absolutely. But there's no way a 15" fallfish takes longer to land than a 15" wild brown or bow.

As for the habitat thing, I've always caught the most fallfish in streams that don't have much else going for them. Places that look like they'd be good trout streams if not for all the sand and silt on the bottom and eroded banks. Typically not many smallies in these places either. I don't fish larger rivers too often so I suppose that's probably a different scenario that busts my theory that I posted.

 

[Dave_W]

Canoetripper wrote:
Dave_W,
I think that the white fish in Lake Michigan are a different species than those that I have caught in the Frying Pan River. I could be wrong about that. I just don't know.

Although all generically called "whitefish" you're right that the ones in the Great Lakes are a slightly different species, although closely related. These lake fish that are common in the upper mid-west are usually called "ciscoes" or more common locally, "tulibees." They are regarded more as a open water, schooling baitfish. The fish you see in trout rivers out West are usually called "mountain whitefish."

 

[Dave_W]

Bamboozle wrote:
I don't really know the difference or if there is a difference between what I catch and "fallfish" but I gained a whole new respect for them a few years back when I encountered HUGE chub nests in Little Pine Creek.

These rock nests are made by fallfish, not chubs.

 

[jifigz]

Dave_W wrote:

Bamboozle wrote:
I don't really know the difference or if there is a difference between what I catch and "fallfish" but I gained a whole new respect for them a few years back when I encountered HUGE chub nests in Little Pine Creek.

These rock nests are made by fallfish, not chubs.

The amount of stones they pile up is rather impressive. They carry the stones in their mouths and drop them where they want them I do believe. I respect the natives. In fact, Jeremymcon (I can never remember what his exact handle is) and I have an on going running joke about fallfish. We always call them natives and actually I'll be writing a book sponsored by Orvis specifically on the tactics, conservation, and appreciation of fallfish. Keep your eyes peeled. It will be sold everywhere books are sold. I'm expecting it to hit the New York Times bestseller list. Lol

 

[tomgamber]

FarmerDave wrote:

And Dave W. Carp are a food fish everywhere in the world cept USA. Have I tried it? Hell no.;-) But Spring time white suckers really aren't bad, just bony.

they had Carp at Wholey's in the Strip in Pittsburgh last weekend.

 

[moon1284]

I dont know how and dont care to differentiate between chubs and fallshish but I agree that they fight poorly. I still have trouble figuring out if a rising fish is a trout or a chub but I can tell about 3 seconds after hooking one. I've caught them up to 18-19 inches.

 

[krayfish2]

Between the fallfish nests and lamprey nests, there's giant rock piles littering the upper Delaware system. They also do a nice job of catching the expired shad and adding nutrients to the river.

Set the hook and any slack line is ripped through the guides....trout. set the hook and it sits there....chub. LoL

 

[jifigz]

I am firmly in the camp that Believes that a 15" fallfish the I catch from the Juniata tugs harder than a 15" wild brown trout that I catch in the streams around me. Trout are kind of......weak. I think the glory of fishing for them is the delciate techniques of presenting nymphs and dries, how beautiful the wild fish are, and the often gorgeous settings in which these fish thrive. I love fishing for trout, but a fallish puts a bigger bend in my 8 weight than a brownie would. In fact, fallfish aren't all that far behind smallies. You guys must all be catching Creek chubs and thinking that they are fallfish. ;-) ;-)

 

[Dave_W]

jifigz wrote:
I am firmly in the camp that Believes that a 15" fallfish the I catch from the Juniata tugs harder than a 15" wild brown trout that I catch in the streams around me.

Yeah, me too.

Do fallfish fight like trout in a big river like the Delaware or Yough? Of course not. Fallfish don't pull line off the reel or jump.

However, when compared to small stream trout typical in PA, a fallfish fights about the same, with the fallfish maybe having the edge in summertime. Both throw in the towel pretty quick.

Now, compared to a 15" smallie....
Tie that 15" fallfish's tail to the bass' tail and the bass will drag that fallfish so fast backwards it'll dislocate its vertebrae. Poor fallfish - don't get no respect. 🙂

 

[afishinado]

DaveW wrote:
Yeah, me too.

Do fallfish fight like trout in a big river like the Delaware or Yough? Of course not. Fallfish don't pull line off the reel or jump.

However, when compared to small stream trout typical in PA, a fallfish fights about the same, with the fallfish maybe having the edge in summertime. Both throw in the towel pretty quick.

Now, compared to a 15" smallie....
Tie that 15" fallfish's tail to the bass' tail and the bass will drag that fallfish so fast backwards it'll dislocate its vertebrae. Poor fallfish - don't get no respect.

I agree, after fighting thousands of them on the same day with the same tackle, a river or streamborn 15" wild brown or rainbow, from the Upper Delaware River or Penns as an example, has way more fight than any 15" fallfish.

Agree that a small stream stocked trout is a different story > K-fishes gym sock....

Oh, and as everyone seems to agree, a 15" smallie will smok'em both.

 

[jifigz]

I'm still not totally bought into that philosophy. I've caught plenty of trout from the Little J, Penns, and Kish; I've never fished the Delaware, however. Those are all fairly large trout streams for PA an think the current helps the browns feel tougher than the more slack water that the fallfish is often found in.

In the end, however, my fishing boils down to the fact that I pretty much love anything tugging on my line. Hopefully we can at least all agree that Rock Bass may be the worst fighting "gamefish" in the state.

 

[JasonC]

I have to weigh in. I agree that rock bass are pretty lazy when it comes to fight. Smallies by far fight the hardest in my opinion. However, and I know many will disagree with this, it’s my experience that the majority of largemouth that I’ve caught pretty much gave up after being hooked. Few and far between are some LM that have actually tried to take my lure into cover. I’ve fished stripers on the Delaware that fought pretty good as have catfish, although I don’t know how much of a “fight” it is when they just lay on the bottom and refuse to move. I’ve never had the pleasure of catching a fallfish or chub though. Just my 2 cents.

 

[RLeep2]

I think you're right about largemouth, Jason. I've caught some out of coolwater lakes that have a lot of zip, but even at that, they were not what I'd call good battlers for their size. Certainly, if bluegills routinely got as big as largemouth, it wouldn't be safe to be in the water. For us or the largemouth...

 

[krayfish2]

jifigz,
You want to do a 1 day float on the Delaware this fall? Stay in touch and if we have enough water, I head up late September - mid October. One rainbow from there will stop any comparisons to chubs. LoL.

I will agree that Smallmouth quite fight hard but it's usually short lived. A big cat will test your gear and if bluegills got to 20", that would break most tackle.

 

[jifigz]

Jason, LMB are certainly worse fighters than all of their sunfish kin

Kray, I'd love to float down the D. Do you row the boat all day and I cast? Because that sounds amazing. 😉 Just teasing you but I'm definitely down for a float sometime.

 

[sarce]

I need to catch the fallfish some of you guys are catching lol I think at best they compare to a finless stockie in 70 degree water. Large water or small. I still enjoy getting into the big ones though, and hey, they're native...

I DO agree that rock bass are the worst fighters! Basically they are a leaf with eyes, fins, and overly large mouth.

Big cats are fun. Non stop action down here on the Potomac.