Fall trout regulations

chstrcntyfish

chstrcntyfish

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Joined
Jul 21, 2007
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I am a little bit confused about the regulations for trout season. I know the basic regulations because im not new to trout fishing, just fly fishing. the only thing is I've never fished through fall before. It says that the regular trout season ends and the extended season starts in september for approved trout waters(in southeast PA) I also am aware that delayed harvest areas are open year round, same with class A waters. For streams that aren't in a certain classification(streams supporting natural reproduction of trout). What are these regulations. I know some are also included on the approved trout waters list, but others aren't. Are these only allowed to be fished until the end of the regular season? I hope what I just said makes sense.
 
Hey- I give it a start and let others fill in the holes.

Your right lots of different regs.

Delayed Harvest areas- are really no harvest areas after Labor Day and last till June 15th

Approved trout waters- may receive fall stockings and you can take fish there provided it is not a C&R area or delayed harvest, must also meet minimum size requirements

I really cant say much more than that since I dont keep/kill fish so I really never worry about stuff like that as long as I know I can fish there.



Approved Trout Waters
These waters have significant portions that are open to public fishing and are stocked with trout by the Commissionn.

Class A Wild Trout Streams
Streams that support a population of wild (natural reproduction) trout of sufficient size and abundance to support a long-term and rewarding sport fishery. The Commission does not stock these streams.

Special Regulation Areas
Waters that have tackle, harvest or other restrictions. There are a number of different regulation categories. Generally these waters can be fished year-round.

Stream Sections that Support Natural Reproduction of Trout
Stream sections supporting naturally reproducing populations of trout. A wild trout stream section is a biological designation that does not determine how it is managed, therefore, these streams may also be stocked with hatchery trout by the Commission.

Wilderness Trout Streams
Wilderness trout stream management is based upon the provision of a wild trout fishing experience in a remote, natural and unspoiled environment where man's disruptive activities are minimized. Established in 1969, this option was designed to protect and promote native (brook trout) fisheries, the ecological requirements necessary for natural reproduction of trout and wilderness aesthetics. The superior quality of these watersheds is considered an important part of the overall angling experience on wilderness trout streams. Therefore, all stream sections included in this program qualify for the Exceptional Value (EV) special protected water use classification, which represents the highest protection status provided by the Department of Environmental Protection (DEP).
 
Here is the start f the annual debate...this is the
the pfbcs answer
to your question. How you interpret it may differ from other. It always does.
 
Tom- thanks. Chester there you have it!

Oh and if you decide to go to fish Erie tribs they have different regs after Sept. 4th.

Trout and Salmon Sept. 4 through April 11, 2008 15 inches 3 (combined species), only two (2) of which can be Lake Trout
 
I would advise you to call your local PFBC office like I did. My experience with PFBC officers is that they sometimes interpret the same regs differently and that their opinion is the only one that counts, really.

The area that is most confusing is the non-ATW waters. This includes wilderness trout streams that are not otherwise regulated.

The way it was explained to me is that regulated ATW (including special reg areas) are the only waters that the PFBC specifically defines an open and closed season and specifically endorses a creel. He then explained that the default on other "unregulated" waters is that that there is neither an open or closed season to fishing (even March 1 to opening day and I specifically asked him on that) nor is there an endorsed creel and that keeping or possesion of trout is illegal on these waters ALL YEAR ROUND. However, he said the most practical point is that these waters are not patrolled for fishing purposes unless a specific complaint has been made, so the potential for poaching exists to a greater extent.

He said that this has been a matter of debate for years and only recently clarified. He said the two biggest misconceptions were that non-ATW waters were closed from March 1 till opening day and that you were allowed to keep fish from non-ATW waters during regular trout season. He emphasized that non-ATW waters were never closed to fishing (exception being waters downstream of ATW) or open to creeling of trout.
 
OhioOutdoorsman wrote:
I would advise you to call your local PFBC office like I did. My experience with PFBC officers is that they sometimes interpret the same regs differently and that their opinion is the only one that counts, really.

The area that is most confusing is the non-ATW waters. This includes wilderness trout streams that are not otherwise regulated.

The way it was explained to me is that regulated ATW (including special reg areas) are the only waters that the PFBC specifically defines an open and closed season and specifically endorses a creel. He then explained that the default on other "unregulated" waters is that that there is neither an open or closed season to fishing (even March 1 to opening day and I specifically asked him on that) nor is there an endorsed creel and that keeping or possesion of trout is illegal on these waters ALL YEAR ROUND. However, he said the most practical point is that these waters are not patrolled for fishing purposes unless a specific complaint has been made, so the potential for poaching exists to a greater extent.

He said that this has been a matter of debate for years and only recently clarified. He said the two biggest misconceptions were that non-ATW waters were closed from March 1 till opening day and that you were allowed to keep fish from non-ATW waters during regular trout season. He emphasized that non-ATW waters were never closed to fishing (exception being waters downstream of ATW) or open to creeling of trout.
Click to expand...

ATW = Approved Trout Waters, it took me a while to figure that out.

Regarding your local WCO's opinion that non-ATW waters are closed to harvest year around. Ask him if he ever wrote somebody up for harvesting trout (within the state-wide rules) in those streams.

That sounds WAY off base.
 
ATW = Approved Trout Waters, it took me a while to figure that out.

Regarding your local WCO's opinion that non-ATW waters are closed to harvest year around. Ask him if he ever wrote somebody up for harvesting trout (within the state-wide rules) in those streams.

That sounds WAY off base.
Click to expand...

Im not sure I understood what your saying. Are you saying that the waters are closed year-round or open year round?
 
OO,

Holy Mackeral...Either that WCO is severely incompetent or you need to listen better.

Here is the straight poop.

1.) Non-ATW are under the same creel limits as ATW's from Opening day until Labor day.

The only difference is seasons.

2.) Non-ATW's have a closed harvest season from Labor Day until Opening day in their respective region. It is still OK to fish them and immediately return your catch.

2.) ATW have a three fish limit from Labor day until March 1st. (prior to opening day.)

4.) All ATW's, except those under special regs, are closed to fishing entirely from March 1 until opening day for stocking purposes. Non-ATW's are open to fishing.

5.) Only ATW's are stocked by the F&BC. However some co-operative nursery clubs can stock non-ATW waters (usually downstream of the ATW boundary)

5. Special regulation stream sections are governed by the rules on those black and white signs. those rules supercede the general regulations.

Here is a good one....In the event a Co-op nursery stocks a non-ATW prior to the season, it is lawful to fish for these fish on a catch and release basis. (no no harvest, see #2)

Its pretty simple but if you want to ask a question that you feel is not covered, ask and we will answer.

Maurice
 
Well, as I said, call the WCO in the area you plan to fish because as is evidenced here, there is divergence, even amongst the WCOs.

I, too was floored by the statement that no creel was endorsed on non-ATW waters. Up until my call this past spring, I had assumed that what Maurice said was true.

His explination was that an open season was defined as a time when the act of fishing was allowed. A closed season is when the act of fishing is forbidden. The terms "open season" and "closed season" reffered to the act of fishing, NOT to the harvest of trout. He was emphatic about this and I asked him twice just to make sure I heard him right. Non-ATW waters have neither an open or closed season; they are unregulated. He then said that approved trout waters are the only waters where a creel is sanctioned by the state and that in PA, a harvest of fish must be sanctioned by the PFBC to be legal.

He did say that the non-approved trout waters are NOT patrolled, so any discussion of the rules/regulations was largely a theoretical one and the regs governing these waters was a matter of debate amoungst WCOs because there are no regulations one way or the other.

All I know for sure is that in the NW PA section, I am OK to practice catch and release fishing in unlisted tribs any time of year, at least for this past season because the WCO said so. It may be different in your locale, depending on your local WCOs mood.

Just call your your local WCO to find out what "the law" is in your area.
 
So it sounds like I am allowed to fish this creek. It is a section that is not downstream of ATW. It just says that there is natural reproduction. Thats the only list it is on. I will most likely contact a WCO to find out for sure. The name is indian run in chester county. Just so you know specifically what my situation is.
 
I believe that Maurice's explanation is right on every count.

That WCO is way off the mark. It's true that thhe WCOs opinion is what matters when it comes to them writing someone up. But when it comes to court, it's the LAW that matters.

There is some patrolling of non-ATW streams. I've been checked twice on non-ATW streams, and I've talked to others who have been also. I've also talked to a WCs who told me about going into remote, unstocked brookie streams on opening day.
 
How Maurice and troutbert interpret the regs is how I would interpret them upon reading them, also.

My straight-laced brother in-law, on his first trip to PA to fish for trout, was stopped by a pair of WCOs on East Hickory DHALO and written a $100 ticket for harvesting a 12" stocker (which they made him return to the river immediately) over the July 4th weekend. When I came back to check on him, they insisted that the water was C and R only. Only after I pointed out the white signs, made them drive to the big wooden "Delayed Harvest Artifical Lures Only" sign, and had them radio in to command central to verify the regulations did they retract the citation. One then turned to the other and said "Well, it should be C and R, but there's nothing we can do about it, apparently." That was the last time my brother in law fished for trout or in PA because "trout fishing is way too complicated."

So again, my only advice is to call your local WCO. Interenet forums are not the place to find definitive answers on regulations. You may even get some good fishing tips from your WCO.

I don't blame you if you don't believe me. I wouldn't believe myself if I heard my explantation of the regs and the above story. My local WCOs seem very illogical at times.

OK, here's one for fun:

In June, you catch a 12" trout while standing under a bridge that marks the boundary between a regular trout regulation section and an a C and R FFO section. Can you keep the fish?
 
Only if you don't get seen by your local wco....lol...
 
OhioOutdoorsman wrote:
How Maurice and troutbert interpret the regs is how I would interpret them upon reading them, also.

My straight-laced brother in-law, on his first trip to PA to fish for trout, was stopped by a pair of WCOs on East Hickory DHALO and written a $100 ticket for harvesting a 12" stocker (which they made him return to the river immediately) over the July 4th weekend. When I came back to check on him, they insisted that the water was C and R only. Only after I pointed out the white signs, made them drive to the big wooden "Delayed Harvest Artifical Lures Only" sign, and had them radio in to command central to verify the regulations did they retract the citation. One then turned to the other and said "Well, it should be C and R, but there's nothing we can do about it, apparently." That was the last time my brother in law fished for trout or in PA because "trout fishing is way too complicated."

So again, my only advice is to call your local WCO. Interenet forums are not the place to find definitive answers on regulations. You may even get some good fishing tips from your WCO.

I don't blame you if you don't believe me. I wouldn't believe myself if I heard my explantation of the regs and the above story. My local WCOs seem very illogical at times.
Click to expand...

East Hickory Creek. I believe that's Forest County. We narrowing this down here. Hmmm. Who's the WCO for Forest County? What you're describing is severe incompetency. I wonder if these were real WCOs, or deputies. Some of the deputies are pretty bad.
 
From the PFBC link posted by Tom Gamber:

“The fishing regulations state that it is unlawful to catch fish except during their season. To protect those who may INADVERTENTLY CATCH A FISH DURING THE CLOSED SEASON, the regulations state that it is not a violation if a fish is caught during a closed season while LEGALLY FISHING FOR ANOTHER SPECIES if the fish is IMMEDIATELY returned unharmed to the water. This does create a strict liability standard: If the fish caught out of season is harmed or killed - even inadvertently - the fact that an angler says he is fishing on a catch-and-release basis is no defense.”

I never paid much attention, since I C&R and thought all trout waters (with few exceptions) were open to C&R fishing. Apparently it is illegal to fish for (target) trout during the closed season. I guess we are all in violation of that regulation. If the WCO comes up to you and asks what your fishing for with that 3wt., you'd better say sturgeon or something.

Also, stopping and taking a photo of the fish would also be a violation (“IMMEDIATELY RETURNED”).

In addition accidentally deep hooking or dropping a fish is another violation.

I’ve always prided myself on following all the fish and game rules, as well as all other laws and regulations. I guess the law has made me a poacher and a lawbreaker. Really dumb stuff, IMO. Close it or open it for non-harvest C&R fishing. Don’t make us all lawbreakers by fishing for trout in the closed season.
 
Yep, I 100% agree afishianado. The link Tom posted is anything but clear. This is a poor way to write regs. They should be simple and clear and they need to get of the fence and stop this "possibility of liability" BS. What is clear is that they don't want you to target trout in non-approved trout waters during the "off-season", whatever and whenever that is. They at least explicitly say that. I have only fishing non-ATW a few times since this incident, and have had a since that I was "breaking the law" each time I did it.

I'm willing to cut the WCOs a break, they have a thankless job and don't get paid well.

All I'm saying is call your local WCO first and get a name so that when you do "get caught" you can point out that you had permission first.

I just called the Meadville office and was told I was OK to practice catch and immediate release this weekend on the non-ATW water I'm planning to fish.
 
Thats why I always use the disclaimer that this will cause debate before I post that link. It is the correct answer however the answer is just really contradictory.
 
Well folks, I found another link and it totally backs up what Maurice says. I'm going to print it off and carry it with my liscence.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/images/pages/qa/trout/year_round.htm

It is interesting to note that the regs book has a disclaimer that it is not actually legal code and should not be interpreted as such.
 
Good catch...I think I've read that before but could never find it. Also, for those that "find" water with wild trout in it and continue to fish it "out of season" and its not on the class A list...I guess that WOULD be a violation, no?
 
No Tom, not a violation...ONLY ATW's have a closed season from March 1 to Opening day in their respective regions. Non-aTW's have no season therefor no closed season.

The laws are designed and enforced around stocking and ATW's. Wild trout streams ore below the radar in most cases mostly because they believe through their biologists that harvest is not a significant factor in trout populations.
 
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