Euro nymph beginner fly questions

[mushumatt]

Hey guys, so after the long hiatus from fly fishing. I did pop in to check the boards every few months the last few years. Unfortunately in LA there really aren’t trout streams ????. But now I’m back in WV! But anyways I was always interested in euro nymphing, I almost bought the sage esn when they where released! But here I am 3-4 years later... I just ordered a TFO drift, sage spectrum C reel, rio euro line, I build my own leaders, and so on.


But I have some questions on nymphs. So I have been chatting with a few US fly fishing members about this specific subject. They are all recommending Sz 12-14 jig hook. Some of you know the largest nymph I ever threw in PA was a 18 down to a 28. Am I just stuck in micro nymph/midge thinking? I know the amount of space to tie is smaller, I was just wondering. Obviously I’m going experiment with my local waters. Also does anyone have any tips on specific euro nymphing? I’m not trying to look like an idiot when I fly out to Utah to get guided/learn from Lance Egan.

 

[BrookieChaser]

I would think, from a guide's standpoint it would be easier for the guide to teach you the way to do things from the start rather than break down old habits.

I wouldn't worry about looking like a fool in front of a guide.

 

[mushumatt]

Sorry, I should reiterate. I am not flying to Utah to just be guided on to fish, We are spending a day working on euro nymphing specifically. I’m not trying to spend the first few hours learning the basics from one of the best US euro nymph fisherman. I would rather take that time on perfecting different aspects of euro nymphing. If I wanted to just catch fish on a guide trip, I would be flying to Patagonia, Alaska, Kamchatka. But I have the opportunity to learn from one of the worlds best. So I am arming myself with as much knowledge as I can before I get out there.

I also guided for 2 years in college.. I’m not new to fly fishing, but new to euro nymphing.

 

[ryansheehan]

The comp guys dont use shot, hence the much bigger jig head flies to get down in the column. So if you want to use shot stick with the small stuff, if you are worried about comp rules than get use to the big jig heads. That being said you can still drop off a smaller fly.

 

[mushumatt]

ryansheehan wrote:
The comp guys dont use shot, hence the much bigger jig head flies to get down in the column. So if you want to use shot stick with the small stuff, if you are worried about comp rules than get use to the big jig heads. That being said you can still drop off a smaller fly.

Yea I think that was my biggest question, thank you for the insight. I’m getting setup and fishing comp style, more so because they are the people I am learning from. An that was my biggest question! I will probably start out with a hybrid fly selection. But move to straight comp style as time progresses. Thank you!

 

[ryansheehan]

That sounds like a great opportunity. I'm not a comp style fisherman but I've blended some of the principles into my nymphing game. Pretty cool to learn from the best in any style.

 

[mushumatt]

ryansheehan wrote:
That sounds like a great opportunity. I'm not a comp style fisherman but I've blended some of the principles into my nymphing game. Pretty cool to learn from the best in any style.

Yea neither am I, but I want to catch more fish. An with this opportunity I want to soak up as much information as possible. I used to fish a blended French style nymphing with amazing success.

 

[PennKev]

ryansheehan wrote:
The comp guys dont use shot, hence the much bigger jig head flies to get down in the column. So if you want to use shot stick with the small stuff, if you are worried about comp rules than get use to the big jig heads. That being said you can still drop off a smaller fly.

^This nails it. The reasoning behind why comp guys do certain things is lost on so many people who want to get into Euro style techniques.

I will add that the 18 and smaller way of thinking may not always be the best approach regardless of which technique you use. In addition to diversifying your skills, diversify your flies. In my experience, a box of flies that are all the same size, might as well be all the same flies. Particularly true of small sizes IMO.

That's not to say you need every different size and a 100 different patterns either. Just change it up. I've fished #8 rubber leg stones and #20 WD40's on the same rig and caught fish on both many times. That's an extreme example, but being able to do that may have been the difference between some pretty good days and mediocre days.

 

[ryansheehan]

PennKev wrote:

ryansheehan wrote:
The comp guys dont use shot, hence the much bigger jig head flies to get down in the column. So if you want to use shot stick with the small stuff, if you are worried about comp rules than get use to the big jig heads. That being said you can still drop off a smaller fly.

^This nails it. The reasoning behind why comp guys do certain things is lost on so many people who want to get into Euro style techniques.

I will add that the 18 and smaller way of thinking may not always be the best approach regardless of which technique you use. In addition to diversifying your skills, diversify your flies. In my experience, a box of flies that are all the same size, might as well be all the same flies. Particularly true of small sizes IMO.

That's not to say you need every different size and a 100 different patterns either. Just change it up. I've fished #8 rubber leg stones and #20 WD40's on the same rig and caught fish on both many times. That's an extreme example, but being able to do that may have been the difference between some pretty good days and mediocre days.

Agreed, I love the strategy of mixing sizes on the same rig. Lately I am relying more on big flies in faster water and smaller in the slower. Like anything else be flexible, thats why I dont limit myself to arbitrary restrictions on tackle ;-) to quote the great Dave Chappelle you gotta diversify your bonds!

 

[mushumatt]

Ryan, thank for your help. I’m just going to talk to the comp guys. Since people here think I have no idea what I’m doing.

 

[Swattie87]

I find the notion of "competition Euro nymphing" funny. Not the actual form of fishing, or the competition part in and of itself...Just that this style of FFing seems to be the only one that's regularly done competitively. Why is that?

For those interested, I'm going to start up a Brookie league for this Summer. No holds barred.

 

[HopBack]

For those interested, I'm going to start up a Brookie league for this Summer. No holds barred.

Can I use my spinnin' rod?

 

[PennKev]

Swattie87 wrote:
.Just that this style of FFing seems to be the only one that's regularly done competitively. Why is that?

The various Euro styles of nymphing are collectively the most effective forms of fishing that adheres to the rules of competition. It's efficient, adaptable, and catches lots of trout.

 

[ryansheehan]

Swattie87 wrote:
I find the notion of "competition Euro nymphing" funny. Not the actual form of fishing, or the competition part in and of itself...Just that this style of FFing seems to be the only one that's regularly done competitively. Why is that?

For those interested, I'm going to start up a Brookie league for this Summer. No holds barred.

I'm all in, I bet we could get a big crowd for the weigh in portion. Hoisting that 12 incher out of the plastic bag, can't wait.

 

[redietz]

The various Euro styles of nymphing are collectively the most effective forms of fishing that adheres to the rules of competition.

You're right, but I think that says more about the rules than the method itself.

 

[PennKev]

redietz wrote:

The various Euro styles of nymphing are collectively the most effective forms of fishing that adheres to the rules of competition.

You're right, but I think that says more about the rules than the method itself.

If you pay attention to all the euro nymphing threads you will notice that I frequently point out that one should consider if some aspect of the technique is the best way or the way that adheres to competitive rules.

Also, do not discredit the effectiveness of these techniques because they were developed within an arbitrary system of rules. Really, the only two rules that are applicable are 1) No split shot, and 2) no floating indicators. A floating indicator is not needed for any of this so it is irrelevant, and the freedom to use split shot only makes these methods more adaptable.

 

[redietz]

PennKev wrote:

Also, do not discredit the effectiveness of these techniques because they were developed within an arbitrary system of rules. Really, the only two rules that are applicable are 1) No split shot, and 2) no floating indicators. A floating indicator is not needed for any of this so it is irrelevant, and the freedom to use split shot only makes these methods more adaptable.

I'm not questioning the effectiveness at all. It's an great way to catch fish. It's just that I could imagine different rules that don't favor it. For example, a rule stating that the fly must be cast with the weight of the line, rather than a rule forbidding split shot.

 

[ryansheehan]

PennKev wrote:

redietz wrote:

The various Euro styles of nymphing are collectively the most effective forms of fishing that adheres to the rules of competition.

You're right, but I think that says more about the rules than the method itself.

If you pay attention to all the euro nymphing threads you will notice that I frequently point out that one should consider if some aspect of the technique is the best way or the way that adheres to competitive rules.

Also, do not discredit the effectiveness of these techniques because they were developed within an arbitrary system of rules. Really, the only two rules that are applicable are 1) No split shot, and 2) no floating indicators. A floating indicator is not needed for any of this so it is irrelevant, and the freedom to use split shot only makes these methods more adaptable.

An indicator can be advantageous in situations but I do agree the big one is no shot. What's interesting is in indicator is almost useless without the ability to quickly adjust the rate of suspension with lead. What I'm saying is you dont need both rules imo.

 

[Narrlybynature]

I can try to answer some of your questions OP. Also this is my first post, I’m happy to be a member here, so please correct me if I am out of line in anyway.


It sounds like you have the setup with rod, line etc. Definitely build an appropriate leader. Line and leader make a huge difference in the euro nymphing technique.

As for the flies, the two biggest things are generally no external weight(it’s all built in) and size. You need some weight in the flies to make the system work. The idea is to get them down to the bottom and be able to maintain “tension” or a sense of it anyway. So yeah the flies are heavy. Heavy flies are generally big, hence the sz12,14. You can pair a small one on a tag as long as your “anchor fly” has some heft to it.

The overarching theory is that since trout live on the bottom of the river, that’s where you need to put the fly. You also need to do it with no drag and that’s what the euro style does.

The casting is weird. Also, it’s a close game generally for faster water. If you need to reach a fish at great distance or in a sloooow pool- use your traditional gear.

Back in the 90’s there was a video from either Harvey or Humphries on “high-stick nymphing”, that is basically what euronymphing is just HIGHLY refined.

As far as the small fly mindset goes-your world is about to get rocked. Don’t worry, small flies and traditional techniques are not going away, euronymphing is just another another tool in the box. And like I said earlier-you can pair a size 24 midge larva(or whatever) with your other fly, and that is VERY POPULAR bc it works. It’s just another technique...

Lastly and least importantly, my background with euronymphing-
I started Flyfishing in the late 80’s or so as a kid. I was the youngest member of my TU chapter by an easy 50yrs. I had a lot great teachers in those older guys and learned all about wet fly fishing and nymphing and dry flies, match the hatch etc. I always tended towards nymphing bc that’s where trout eat 90% of the time. Standard stuff, indicators and shot, dry/droppers blah blah blah. Last year I started euronymphing, no coaching/guiding, just learning from videos and my old high sticking technique. I caught more fish, and on bigger flies than I ever had before.
Do I miss throwing loops and traditional fly fishing-yup and I immediately change my setup so I can indulge in some actual casting.

Sorry this was long winded, I hope it helps.

 

[ryansheehan]

Welcome to the board.