etiquette question

[bushwacker]

You arrive at a remote stream parking/access area to find another vehicle. You ascertain that this person is most likely fishing based on the fly rod rack and several fishing themed stickers adorning the rear window. You want to move a mile upstream to a feeder you've had your eye on for a while. Being a conscientious being, you survey your surroundings for clues to discern your fellow fisher mans location and direction of travel but find no clues. You don't want to rudely cut in on their section of stream but don't know where he is. What do you do?

 

[salmonoid]

It's a jerk move if you see them and hop a hundred yards upstream. If you walk a mile upstream, I don't see any problem if you start fishing the main stem or a feeder. They don't have a right to a whole drainage, nor do you have an obligation of searching for hours for clues where they are fishing. I was blessed to not see any signs of anglers this past weekend, except the outbound boot tracks of an angler who must have been following me, which I saw on the way out. Could even have been you.

 

[kobalt335]

It's hard to tell where people are fishing and whether they went upstream or downstream. So i would just fish, and if I saw the other person I would adjust my plans since they were already in the area.

 

[rrt]

I'm one who gets kind of edgy about this. But, I think if you give a guy a mile of stream before you start to fish, you have used good manners in most cases. A mile of a small stream is a pretty reasonable fishing distance.

 

[redietz]

When I was much younger, the etiquette was that the person fishing upstream has the right of way. This seems to have fallen by the wayside to some extent, but the idea was to not muddy the water of the other angler.

If you were to fish your way up for a mile, either he's fishing ahead of you, so you have nothing to worry about (except not being the first to fish the section) or he's fishing his way down and you would have the right of way.

If you're planning on walking the mile up and fishing down (and don't see the other angler on they way up) just get out of the water if you encounter him and go around him if he's fishing upstream.

If you were planning on walking the mile up and don't pass him on the way, you're good either way.

If you do pass him along the way, and he's fishing down, again you have nothing to worry about. (Although I still wouldn't get into the water immediately upstream if I were fishing down.)

If pass him, and he's fishing upstream, I suppose it would depend on how crowded the river can get how much room you should give him.

If you do encounter him, don't be afraid to ask which way he's fishing.

 

[wildtrout2]

If I have plans on fishing a stream where there's even a chance of somebody else fishing it that day, I'll make sure I'm there at first light. It's a rare day when I encounter another fisherman. I like that.

 

[JW1970]

Uh, call me old school, but if I arrive anywhere fishing and see someone else is there first, I think long and hard about whether I stay or move on. If it's the type of location like you described, I move on. Why? Because that fisherman is likely there for the same reasons I went there -- solitude, relaxing and to explore the stream. If I was there first, why the hell would I want someone else ruining that for me? So I'd move on. A mile is nothing - a location like you described is made for covering water, and I assume this was a smallish stream so potentially hopping ahead of someone, even a mile, and then that person having to fish over where you've already fished is a move of an ****** in my opinion if you've done it consciously. If I arrive at a location that usually has fishermen, I assess how many and if it's reasonable to join the crowd. To me personally, I think any situation where you box in another fishermen's opportunities is just terrible etiquette. So if I or other fishermen don't have enough room to move a bit, feel like they can relax and having breathing room or not feel like it's "take a number" fishing, I go find somewhere else. I know how it feels when some ****** or a whole group of a-holes come barreling over the streambank and fan out around me pinching me in and basically squeezing me out. It's nothing I want to be apart of and nothing I want to cause. The only exceptions like I said would be areas that are going to be crowded regardless and it's just something you accept -- like the Salmon River say during the run, opening day of trout, etc. when it's just part of the experience to be elbow to elbow. Unfortunately, I think people have brought that "acceptance" to fisheries where it wasn't needed, didn't exist and is counter to all things that make those fisheries the special places they were or could be. The best example of that without spot burning is the upper Delaware (all branches). Few think twice these days before squeezing someone out of a pool or pinching them into a spot -- forcing them to just stare at water and hope that a fish happens to get active in their little "beat" of water. ...or the damn flotilla of boats. So to go back to answer your question, if I pull up to a location like you describe, I say "ah #### me!" when I see the vehicle(s) and I go somewhere else. And as someone else said, if I want to fish there so badly, next time I make sure I get there first... which also ruins the experience. Who the hell wants to go relax by starting their day making a race of it to claim a "beat?" People, if you don't mind crowds and no elbow room, go where it already is that way. Don't bring your overcrowded mentality to somewhere that doesn't already have it. There's my rant. Stream etiquette is mostly dead in the northeast.

 

[Swattie87]

Good topic. From an etiquette perspective in small stream angling, it’s pretty simple IMO. I yield to the plans of the angler who got to the stream first. If that’s me, I’d hope for the same in return.

The fundamental problem in the scenario the OP describes is you don’t know where the other angler is, and therefore where to give that mile (or whatever) of well intentioned berth you intend to give the other angler. If you walk a mile upstream or downstream from the lot, duck down into the stream, and the other angler pops around the corner, you’ve accomplished nothing…Other than pissing the other guy off, and walking a mile each way for no reason yourself. It’s a guessing game trying to figure out where the other guy is. You may run into him, or, you may end up fishing water he’s already fished, which on a small stream generally is very unproductive.

I’m like wt2. If I have my heart set on a particular stream for a given day, I’m getting up early and making sure I’m the first guy there. Sometimes, I’ll even drive most of the way there the night before and grab a hotel, if it’s a longer drive…I do this probably for 3 or 4 outings a year on favorite streams that are 3+ hours from my home. When I don’t plan to get to the stream at first light, I typically have a plan B or C for the day, and I’ll put those into action if I get to my choice A and find a high likelihood of someone else fishing it somewhere in the area I planned to. I’d rather have stream B or C for the day to myself, than have to guess where another angler (who got there before me) is on stream A and risk fishing behind him, or interrupting his plans.

I’ve had guys arrive in the lot on a small stream while I was still there gearing up. One time a guy drove from southern NJ to fish a remote Poconos stream. I had driven 2+ hours that morning to fish it too, and had beaten him by about 10 minutes. He was funny when he got out of his truck and said…”I guess I shouldn’t have stopped for that cup of coffee.” We talked a bit, and settled on a plan to split the water up for the day. He only had til noon to fish, where I had the whole day, so I told him I would hike up to a set of waterfalls on the trail about 2 miles up and not fish until I got above the falls. He could start at the bottom of the trail from the lot and fish up to the falls. Never saw each other again that day, but I still had a good day fishing. Hope he did too.

Earlier this year, I drove about 3 hours the night before and grabbed a hotel to fish a small stream in central PA the next morning. Combination of a slow MTO breakfast order at Sheetz, and a wrong turn on the way to the stream that morning had me get there about 20 minutes later than I had planned. Sure enough, there was a vehicle on the way in, though below where I planned to fish. I stopped and rolled down the window…It was actually the Lively Legz crew of YouTube fame. I asked them what their plan was, and they were planning on fishing up to where I was planning on starting, so it worked out fine. Good karma perhaps from the day I shared the Poconos stream? Real nice guys who tie some real nice flies by the way.

Not all the times are vehicles there for fishing though. I tend to assume everyone is fishing, but many times folks are just hiking or out for a walk. During Spring and Fall hunting seasons, many vehicles are hunters as well. It’s a calculated risk based on the context clues of the vehicle.

 

[RLeep2]

My approach is not unlike the two most recent posters above.

When planning an outing, the availability of nearby alternative destinations is almost important to me as the primary stream I have in mind. I think in stream clusters so that I have options and flexibility. Regardless of how far I've driven, I won't stay on a piece of water that already has another angler on it, whether I can see or approximate his location and intentions or not.

In a situation where my planned destination is really the only place I'm interested in, I'll get there well before the birds wake up. If I still get trumped (a word I hate a lot more than I used to...) by an even earlier arrival, my definition of the extent of an acceptable cluster of options increases accordingly. Logging an additional 50 miles to be alone somewhere else is ok with me if that is what it takes.

I've ended up accepting some pretty far flung clusters in my day...

 

[tomitrout]

I've run into this a few times, and often it's such a drive or schedule dictates that skipping to another drainage just isn't desirable. So I'll try to figure out whether the prior person there went up or downstream, looking for boot prints, and go the opposite direction.

And if no clear sign, flip a coin and then start walking either up or down, usually downstream wins. Takes me about 20 minutes to cover a mile on trail, which is a decent couple hours worth of water for me to fish if the stream is interesting enough. If I don't run across the other angler on the walk down stream, I look a bit further to see if he's below me within sight and if not, fish from there back to the car. If I do run across the other angler, a simple conversation is all it takes to figure out a game plan that works for both.

 

[poopdeck]

I'm not buying half of what is being said. Inflated self importance, fragile egos and angry men in tweed are primary reasons I don't trout fish with any kind of regularity. This has nothing to do with etiquette. Rather, it's about selfishness and feelings of entitlement. I love how the internet has defined and grown fly fishing etiquette as personal miles of stream and parking lots. Not the practice in real life.

 

[rrt]

Wow, I thought giving another guy a mile was enough; but I guess that's based on how long I fish. I generally am good for 2 to as many as 3 hours of fishing. At one time, it took me a little more than 2 hours to cover a mile of small stream. Now, at 68, it's more like 3.

But, some of you younger guys are going to have at it all day, so I guess you need more than a mile, which I really didn't consider. Having said that, I, like rleep2, usually have B plans when I have driven somewhere. I needed those B plans a couple of times this past spring, since little runs I had planned to fish were already occupied.

Also, since I am retired, I generally do not fish on weekends (except during the big spring hatches) in an effort to avoid running into other anglers. I think it has helped me to avoid confrontations.

Anyhow, posts 7 thru 10 seem to be pretty much on spot, IMO.

 

[Swattie87]

poopdeck wrote:
I'm not buying half of what is being said. Inflated self importance, fragile egos and angry men in tweed are primary reasons I don't trout fish with any kind of regularity. This has nothing to do with etiquette. Rather, it's about selfishness and feelings of entitlement. I love how the internet has defined and grown fly fishing etiquette as personal miles of stream and parking lots. Not the practice in real life.

You sound dehydrated.

 

[tomitrout]

I'm not buying half of what is being said. Inflated self importance, fragile egos and angry men in tweed are primary reasons I don't trout fish with any kind of regularity. This has nothing to do with etiquette. Rather, it's about selfishness and feelings of entitlement. I love how the internet has defined and grown fly fishing etiquette as personal miles of stream and parking lots. Not the practice in real life.

Well, you've certainly gone off on a tangent....I'm not taking any of this discussion as a sense of entitlement, it more about practicality in 'real life.' Applying the described small stream scenario as in the original post, you follow closely behind somebody, knowingly or not, and you're not going to catch ****. In practice in real life, I like to catch fish and giving somebody a wide berth on a small stream enables both anglers to do so. A mile of water is a pleasant couple or few hours of solitude and only takes 20 odd minutes to walk to or from.

 

[Bamboozle]

I honestly don't give it much thought and I fish places like Clark’s Creek on occasion when there may be several cars in a given parking lot.

I walk in, look up and down, give as wide a berth as is practical (a mile ain’t happening for nobody); I start fishing and deal with the conflicts if and when they happen.

In my entire life, I have had very few hassles with anglers that couldn't be resolved by one or the other party voluntarily moving 50 - 100 yards.

The other times, me standing my ground and the other party knowing I ain't going nowhere has always resolved the problem.

If only someone could teach some etiquette to the people who insist on throwing sticks for their dogs to chase 10 feet above me, parents allowing their kids to throw rocks in the pool I am fishing or swimmers; not to mention tubers, kayaks or canoes that cross in front of me a few feet away.

THOSE are the A-holes who need a courtesy lesson!!

 

[krayfish2]

Simple response:. Fish elsewhere or get up earlier next time.

 

[moon1284]

Agree with above - especially with steelhead. Haven't fished SR in a few years so it's a little bit easier now, but there are no longer any secrets. I'm brutal with steelhead. There are spots where I wont even act like I'm fishing if people are within sight because I dont want to hook one and give people ideas.

The internet is a gift and a curse. There are spots that I've fished since the late 90s where if I saw anyone it was the same 1 or 2 guys who might be there. Now I see those same spots on the local newspaper catch of the week with some ******** wearing a go pro bragging about the 8 steelhead he caught with pics of all of them. Not really the end of the world. I live within walking distance and on that river it's legal to fish in the dark. I get a kick out of seeing guys taking trails 5 or 6, showing up at 730am and being pissed that I'm there.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://parks.ny.gov/parks/attachments/NiagaraFallsNiagaraGorgeTrailMap.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjy8uvn7dHbAhVr7oMKHaKxCrQQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw1svp_ZE0wixCgG4ToeNzAn

 

[ryansheehan]

I've never had any issues on tiny ST streams as described, now slightly bigger waters that's a different story. I think there really is a different kind of fisherman who hikes these tiny streams for reasons not always involving fish. It is mutually beneficial for them to stay the hell away from each other...again on bigger streams not so much.

 

[poopdeck]

Swattie87 wrote:

poopdeck wrote:
I'm not buying half of what is being said. Inflated self importance, fragile egos and angry men in tweed are primary reasons I don't trout fish with any kind of regularity. This has nothing to do with etiquette. Rather, it's about selfishness and feelings of entitlement. I love how the internet has defined and grown fly fishing etiquette as personal miles of stream and parking lots. Not the practice in real life.

You sound dehydrated.

I'm going to have to pack more water if I have to walk a mile past every angler I see.

Sharing a natural resource with others is proper etiquette. It's really that simple. To suggest trout don't bite unless we're spaced a mile apart is pure hogwash.

 

[Swattie87]

poopdeck wrote:
Sharing a natural resource with others is proper etiquette. It's really that simple. To suggest trout don't bite unless we're spaced a mile apart is pure hogwash.

In this context (legitimate small stream fishing) sharing the resource in most cases means choosing another small stream to fish that day if the one you arrive at has an angler already on it, and you don’t know where they are or where they’ve been. Ryan just said it well, in far less words than I did...It’s mutually beneficial for both anglers for them to avoid each other. And most small stream anglers will go out of their way to do this.

Challenge...Fish a small stream behind me by an hour or two (say a mile’s worth) and see how well the fish bite. I’ll carry my pump filter and leave you a 32 oz of freshly purified water every mile so you don’t have to carry any.