wow thats a tuff call, but i believe you did the right thing, now thats easy for us to say not sure how i would react,but i guess it depends on how good of a friend they were, and who`s to say they wouldn`t to it again or tell someone else , hey this is what we did you should try it
Did I Do the Right Thing
- Thread starter MKern
- Start date
MKern,
This is a tough one. I think your willingness to solicit the opinion of other fly fishers shows good conscience. To be perfectly honest I'm inclined to think that you probably should have let it slide. No question - what they were doing was wrong (and illegall) but if it were me I would have explained it to 'em then dropped the subject. I just don't think that the possibility of losing old family friends would be worth it over an issue like this. If they were dumping poisin in the stream it would be a different story but some stockies probably wasn't worth it. Tough call. Anyway, what's done is done as they say. Perhaps next time you might want to solicit the opinions before making a decision. Don't lose sleep over it. With time I hope your friends remain your friends but some people are overly sensitive and things like this aren't forgotten. Good luck with this. The best possible scenario would be that they be let off with a warning and nothing more comes of it. If this happens I'd try to make amends and drop the subject.
This is a tough one. I think your willingness to solicit the opinion of other fly fishers shows good conscience. To be perfectly honest I'm inclined to think that you probably should have let it slide. No question - what they were doing was wrong (and illegall) but if it were me I would have explained it to 'em then dropped the subject. I just don't think that the possibility of losing old family friends would be worth it over an issue like this. If they were dumping poisin in the stream it would be a different story but some stockies probably wasn't worth it. Tough call. Anyway, what's done is done as they say. Perhaps next time you might want to solicit the opinions before making a decision. Don't lose sleep over it. With time I hope your friends remain your friends but some people are overly sensitive and things like this aren't forgotten. Good luck with this. The best possible scenario would be that they be let off with a warning and nothing more comes of it. If this happens I'd try to make amends and drop the subject.
ryanh
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Farmer Dave,
I would rather have a busted nose than some puke from the DEP come knocking on my door. In fact some of my best friends have broken my nose. :lol:
I'm not kidding when I say they are the 800 lb gorilla. My lord they have means and motivation to prosecute you to the full extent of the law if they wanted to.
Maybe the guy didn't know "how bad" his actions are. Come on how many normal people appreciate the words class A, and stream bed integrity?
There are a great deal of seasond anglers that could not correctly identify a brook from a brown, let alone native from stocker. I am not making excusses for the dude, but calling the Gestappo on him for displacing a handful of 5 inch fish is a little much.
I would rather have a busted nose than some puke from the DEP come knocking on my door. In fact some of my best friends have broken my nose. :lol:
I'm not kidding when I say they are the 800 lb gorilla. My lord they have means and motivation to prosecute you to the full extent of the law if they wanted to.
Maybe the guy didn't know "how bad" his actions are. Come on how many normal people appreciate the words class A, and stream bed integrity?
There are a great deal of seasond anglers that could not correctly identify a brook from a brown, let alone native from stocker. I am not making excusses for the dude, but calling the Gestappo on him for displacing a handful of 5 inch fish is a little much.
I don't think you did the right thing, but this is coming from some one that isn't educated either. I don't know much about stream bed integrity, so maybe you guys can fill me in.
From my point of view it sounds like you ratted out a friend who was trying to help kids have a fun opening day. I'm sure that's his point of view too because he probably doesn't know a lot about stream bed integrity and all that jazz. I'm sure he's not very happy with you.
As far as i can see, helping some of those kids have a good first day might get more interested in the sport and the benefits might out weigh the consequences.
Like i said i don't really know a lot about what the damage he did. All it sounds like to me is a guy dug a hole in a stream no biggy.
From my point of view it sounds like you ratted out a friend who was trying to help kids have a fun opening day. I'm sure that's his point of view too because he probably doesn't know a lot about stream bed integrity and all that jazz. I'm sure he's not very happy with you.
As far as i can see, helping some of those kids have a good first day might get more interested in the sport and the benefits might out weigh the consequences.
Like i said i don't really know a lot about what the damage he did. All it sounds like to me is a guy dug a hole in a stream no biggy.
>but calling the Gestappo on him for displacing a handful of 5 inch fish is a little much.>
Goodness...
I thought this thing about calling the state environmental regulators "Gestapo" went out of vogue when Ridge split DER up into DEP and DCNR.
I guess not though...
Goodness...
I thought this thing about calling the state environmental regulators "Gestapo" went out of vogue when Ridge split DER up into DEP and DCNR.
I guess not though...
FarmerDave
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ryanh, I was thinking the same thing about the DEP. They can also be pests for quite awhile afterwards.
Can I change my answer?
My first reaction is that anyone digs in the stream, you should make the phone call. But it's an old family friend, that certainly makes things different.
You said they had "I'll do it anyway" attittude. Does this means you discussed it with them and they blew it off?
You might have been able to explain it to them and maybe they realize the mistake and wouldn't do it in the future.
Since it's a friend, you might let someone else make the phone call. If I see someone digging in a stream with a backhoe or front end loader on state forest land and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it (bridge construction or something) I'll make the phone call without the slightest hesitation and I think other anglers would too. I sure hope so!
My first reaction is that anyone digs in the stream, you should make the phone call. But it's an old family friend, that certainly makes things different.
You said they had "I'll do it anyway" attittude. Does this means you discussed it with them and they blew it off?
You might have been able to explain it to them and maybe they realize the mistake and wouldn't do it in the future.
Since it's a friend, you might let someone else make the phone call. If I see someone digging in a stream with a backhoe or front end loader on state forest land and there doesn't seem to be any good reason for it (bridge construction or something) I'll make the phone call without the slightest hesitation and I think other anglers would too. I sure hope so!
I tried to stay out of it, but after re-reading your post it sounds like you only cared how it affected you and not everyone else. And I'm curious did you really talk to them before you made the call. It seems to me you are from a place with beautiful streams and I hoope they stay that way. However I'm from an area where the streams are full of silt and non native plant species from poor agriculture practices. I feel that perhaps a talk with your " old family friend" would have saved you at least one sleepless night. I applaude you for caring enough about your fishing streams to do something about it, but perhaps over the fence friendly talk with him could have saved lots of nervousness and asking for everyone elses blessing in this perhaps poor decision.
MKern
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I think a lot of you misunderstood "old family friend" They are no longer close to the family because of the pletiful illegal and immoral acts they commit (such as harvesting over a dozen deer out of season and without proper tags). However, I didn't call the attorities out of spite. I tried to talk to them in a calm manner, however, if I told them that the stream is abbundant with trout already, it would be cleared out within 2 weeks. The PFBC told me that they are more concerned witht eh hatchery they recieved the fish from.
I also believe you all are being too harsh on me. For example, I teach students that have been expeled from school and they always call each other "snitches" for slipping info to the teachers. They, like you all, are placing blame on the people who told (and did the right thing) and not the people who BROKE THE LAW. Besides how would you all feel if I came to where you lived and devisated your favorite fishing spot?
We all know that even 1 12" fish that survives the Saturday slaughter can reak havock on a small stream. Let's face it, there is barely enough food for the native fish to survive. Now add a 15" golden bow to the mix; not only will he consume more than his fair share, but in tough times will start to eat the brookies.
I have held my tounge plenty of times on this forum. I could lash out at many of you for some of the things you say. However, I was raised that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anthing at all.
I also believe you all are being too harsh on me. For example, I teach students that have been expeled from school and they always call each other "snitches" for slipping info to the teachers. They, like you all, are placing blame on the people who told (and did the right thing) and not the people who BROKE THE LAW. Besides how would you all feel if I came to where you lived and devisated your favorite fishing spot?
We all know that even 1 12" fish that survives the Saturday slaughter can reak havock on a small stream. Let's face it, there is barely enough food for the native fish to survive. Now add a 15" golden bow to the mix; not only will he consume more than his fair share, but in tough times will start to eat the brookies.
I have held my tounge plenty of times on this forum. I could lash out at many of you for some of the things you say. However, I was raised that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anthing at all.
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Feel free to lash out, but before you do, take due note that:
(a) you are the one that refered to these people as "family friends" without providing the additional info you just shared; and
(b) in the future, if you don't want people to weigh in on whether you "did the right thing," maybe you shouldn't start a thread entitled "Did I Do The Right Thing."
(a) you are the one that refered to these people as "family friends" without providing the additional info you just shared; and
(b) in the future, if you don't want people to weigh in on whether you "did the right thing," maybe you shouldn't start a thread entitled "Did I Do The Right Thing."
MKern
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1hook,
I agree, getting children interest is a good thing. However, having the children understand good fishing practices is just as important. Why bother teaching them if all we teach them is that we can do what ever we want without reprocussions because we are pompous white americans. Is dropping in 2 dozen fish and then yanking them out, meanwhile leaving out salmon egg and worm containers on the ground how you want your children to learn how to fish?
I agree, getting children interest is a good thing. However, having the children understand good fishing practices is just as important. Why bother teaching them if all we teach them is that we can do what ever we want without reprocussions because we are pompous white americans. Is dropping in 2 dozen fish and then yanking them out, meanwhile leaving out salmon egg and worm containers on the ground how you want your children to learn how to fish?
FarmerDave
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We misunderstood "old family friend?" We misunderstood???!!! That sounds just like what the kids in your class would say, blaming someone else for their mistakes. Try this one next time. "I used a poor choice of words." There is a big difference. Yours blames everyone else. Mine takes responsibility. Now for our next lesson. :lol: Hey, that might sound mean, but I calls'm as I sees'm and you asked for that after that guilt trip you tried to lay on us. Amature! :-D
Did they eat them? It may not make a difference to you, but it would to me. It might be illegal, but not imoral if they need the meat. We did it when I was younger (but never to that extent). Big family, expensive to feed. So there is no confusion, that is big as in size and in numbers. You wouldn't have wanted to pay my old mans grocery bill. :-D I suppose if they can afford to buy a cabin, they can afford to buy beef, so never mind.;-)
In all seriousness now, I have to once again agree with Jack on this one. You asked for our opinion, so we gave it.
Now, with this new information that you added, I would probably have done the same thing as you did. Except for the part where you posted it on a public forum. Heck, I once dropped a dime on PennDOT. It felt pretty good, too.
FarmerDave
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Hey, what are friends for. :-D
