Delayed Harvest - Define??

[ryansheehan]

TwoDogs wrote:
Well, Captain Burrell says the Berkeley Power Bait Trout Worms are legal, so the the PFBC must consider them a scented bait.

They look just like a regular plastic worm, except Berkeley claims trout will hold on 18 times longer ... unless as often happens, they swallow them.

No he doesnt. He says scented lures are okay, but it looks like power worms might be made of paste. He says in the email paste is not okay, still not real clear to me.

 

[TwoDogs]

I specifically questioned the legality of using a Berkeley Power Bait Trout Worm and his response indicated to me they consider it a soft plastic worm:

DHALO regulations permit the use of “artificial lures only constructed of metal, plastic, rubber or wood or with flies and streamers constructed of natural or synthetic materials”, therefore, soft plastic worms are permitted.

Thomas J Burrell, Captain
Waterways Conservation Officer Manager
Pa Fish & Boat Commission
PO Box 67000 Harrisburg Pa 17106
717-705-7838

 

[moon1284]

We're worried about two guys fishing out the Tully catch and releasing stocked trout using powerbait? I understand the principle, but the impact is minimal.

I'd rather see powerbait than a go pro on my favorite places to fish. No camera regs would create higher quality fisheries than no kill regs.

 

[ryansheehan]

I stand corrected.

moon1284 wrote:
We're worried about two guys fishing out the Tully catch and releasing stocked trout using powerbait? I understand the principle, but the impact is minimal.

I'd rather see powerbait than a go pro on my favorite places to fish. No camera regs would create higher quality fisheries than no kill regs.

I disagree with this, pictures can be taken responsibly and pictures can be taken that are harmful to the fish. Things I see the are harmful to fish
1. Taking pictures of fish that are layed on rocks, I cringe when I see this.
2. The death grip, too much squeeze is harmful. Unfortunately the harder you squeeze the more the fish freaks out then people tend to grab harder.
3. Holding the fish out of the water more then a second or two.
4. Taking pictures when air temps are below freezing. If your getting rod ice too cold to have the fish out of water, period. Freezing eyes, gills, etc leads to a very high mortality rate.


I enjoy getting pictures of fish but just like anything else there is a good way and bad way. I often don't take a picture because the situation isn't right. However fishing live bait causes way more mortality then pictures in my experience. Does anyone have anything to add onto the list I made, I'm sure I left something off.

 

[moon1284]

I agree that pics can be taken responsibly, and the pics you post are examples of that. However, I think there is more harm done overall by pic taking than by two guys using powerboat in a dhalo zone on a heavily stocked, extremely popular creek.

And to be clear, by a higher quality experience I mean less angler density which leads to reduced pressure and harvest.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Yeah I asked a guy that I know who is in the fish commission he said it would be legal to use the Berkley trout worms there.

 

[pcray1231]

Powerbait, while originally used on the paste, has become more of a brand name, and they make a bunch of stuff.

The rubber worm types, even if scented, are considered artificial and as such, are legal. These are basically curly tails. Those in the video were doing nothing wrong. We can argue whether they should be legal. But under current regs they are.

I'm not sure if the paste product would be, though.

As far as conservation, honestly I think I deep hook more with flies than I used to as a bait fisherman. It's a low number both ways though. When I fished bait I was mostly a live minnie guy who fished on a tight line, often combining nymph like drifts with working it. Drift, jerk, drift, jerk. With flies though it's all drifting with a lesser connection to the fly (despite my best efforts), and quite often flies are much smaller and easier to "inhale" than a larger offering. I've had deep hooks on dry flies, especially with tricos and midges.

That said, I fully acknowledge bait combined with dead stick fishing is deadly. As in dead fish. Regardless of regs I hate to see forked sticks. I also hate the "hey, I got a bite, I'll let him take it a while" types. Set the dang hook! But I don't claim it to be illegal.

 

[Hook_Jaw]

Rarely do I ever hook one deep on streamers but sometimes if you hook a bruiser they just suck that thing right in and even on a quick strip set can get it down some in there mouth closer to the gills.

 

[blkpowder]

Well,I got to talk personally with Capt. Tom Burrel last spring for almost two hours on the phone. The reason he called,because my wife posted a comment on the PFBC’s,The Fishing Hole. She posted about this will be her last year she will purchase a fishing license because of the changes to the Loyalhanna DH section. She was at work when Capt. Tom Burrel called,so I took the call and told him why she is no longer going to buy a license. First it was about the crowds the new program brought. Second,because of the spin fishermen using these powerbait worms. As for the crowd’s,his response,well you know what it is like when something new comes out. It will ease up as the novelty wears off. My response, well unlike a lot off the other DH waters. The PFBC looked at a stream map and said,well,we will start at this point and end at this part of the creek. On the Loyalhanna,it took many,many hours,days,weeks and months of stream cleanup and stream improvement from dedicated hard work from volunteers,to get this section even considered for a DH. And the reason Russ Mason and Don Robb wanted and worked for this was to get away from the crowds. I know a lot of people think the Loyalhanna DH section is not one of the better waters we have and you a right. BUT! For a lot of people,like my wife and others who do have the option to be able to go somewhere else,this is all they got. ( and I also know from a friend that works for the PFBC,more complaints have come from the Ligonier area than any of the other Select Trout waters ) well the reason was posted,again,this was not Russ’s and Don’s and others envision when they put the work into this stream As for the powerbait worms,this is where we spent the most time on the phone about. I told him,this is how many feel,it is bait and for the novice,how can they compete. I got two new fly fishing anglers into the sport just a year before this program started and that was their words.( I had guys throwing those power worms from across the creek and nailing almost every fish in front of me. How can I compete against that )! Again,after almost two hours on the phone and I give Capt. Tom Burrel credit for trying to sale the new Select Trout waters and the Powerbait worms ( and yes he said they are LEGAL ) I’m not a fan as many others aren’t either! His last attempt to sale the powerbait worms was,you know we did a study on bait vs. lures vs. flies and found there is no difference in mortality from on method to the other. I said,that is true and false! Depends on the angler and his technique. I told him,while observing the anglers using the powerbait,they fished it as if it was a real worm. They would cast,then pinch off the line against the rod handle with their index finger with the bail open to the reel. Once a fish picked up the worm,they would let go of the line and let it run off for a few seconds,then close the bail and set the hook. Resulting in the fish swallowing the bait and instead of the angler trying to cut the line,they would try to dig it out first and if not successful,then they would cut the line. Then it was to late,they had killed that fish! So there you have it,they are LEGAL and I do not see the PFBC changing their stance on these things.