Class A Streams around Lock Haven

[jifigz]

Western Clinton Co Sportsmens and Laurelly Fork Cooperative Nursery

Are you saying that they are the groups that were advocated stocking?

 

[Bamboozle]

I've fished both branches of Young Women's Creek only going back to the early 2000's.

Both branches are beautiful however, whenever I fished them I was less than impressed with the fish I caught which were usually stockers & small wild brookies. Oh, I've had some banner days but that was usually with stocked fish.

After subsequent visits with similar impressions I'd either skip YWC entirely and fish a tributary. A slightly different MO is to strategically park my vehicle by one of my favorite tribs.

Then I would walk several miles downstream, fish up to my car, switch to a sweet little 6'6" 3wt rod and finish up my day fishing the tributary...

 

[Swattie87]

I've fished both branches of Young Women's Creek only going back to the early 2000's.

Both branches are beautiful however, whenever I fished them I was less than impressed with the fish I caught which were usually stockers & small wild brookies. Oh, I've had some banner days but that was usually with stocked fish.

After subsequent visits with similar impressions I'd either skip YWC entirely and fish a tributary. A slightly different MO is to strategically park my vehicle by one of my favorite tribs.

Then I would walk several miles downstream, fish up to my car, switch to a sweet little 6'6" 3wt rod and finish up my day fishing the tributary...

I pull that move too.

 

[troutbert]

Why were the locals pushing hard to have this stream stocked if it never was?

Never was?

YWC and its Left Branch were stocked when I first fished there around 1970, and were probably stocked clear back to the earliest days of stocking in the region, when hatchery trout were transported by steam locomotive and horse and wagon. Some of the smaller tribs were stocked also.

After Operation Future went into effect, the right branch was listed as Class A and the PFBC quit stocking it. I'm not sure of the year that happened, but probably in the 1980s.

Around 1999 Western Clinton Sportsmen pressured the PFBC to put it back on the stocking list with help from a state legislator. It was put back on the stocking list and it still is today.

The Left Branch was never taken off the stocking list.

 

[Swattie87]

A lot of times I think “Sportman’s” groups/clubs/whatever think there are not enough fish in wild Trout streams, especially ones that are predominantly wild Brown Trout (like YWC), because wild Brown Trout, most of the time, are relatively difficult to catch. Especially in comparison to stocked fish, of any species. Stocked Browns are much easier to catch than wild Browns. With stocked Bows and Brookies being even easier. They just don’t spook like wild fish do.

So I think a lot of times this mindset drives the behavior. “There’s no fish here, because we can’t catch any.” When it’s far from the truth. Don’t get me wrong, most of the time, in most conditions, YWC probably does fish pretty tough. Similar to the reputation that other similar NCPA watersheds have…Slate/Cedar/CF/etc. But in all of those cases, including YWC, it’s not because there aren’t wild fish there. There are. I bet if you surveyed both branches today, they’d meet class A standards. Maybe not below the confluence, but still.

Maybe we can suggest these “sportsmen” just fish them out of the raceways at their respective hatcheries? If that’s the experience they’re looking for.

 

[jifigz]

Never was?

YWC and its Left Branch were stocked when I first fished there around 1970, and were probably stocked clear back to the earliest days of stocking in the region, when hatchery trout were transported by steam locomotive and horse and wagon. Some of the smaller tribs were stocked also.

After Operation Future went into effect, the right branch was listed as Class A and the PFBC quit stocking it. I'm not sure of the year that happened, but probably in the 1980s.

Around 1999 Western Clinton Sportsmen pressured the PFBC to put it back on the stocking list with help from a state legislator. It was put back on the stocking list and it still is today.

The Left Branch was never taken off the stocking list.

I don't really know the history of the stream. I just figured it was never stocked since people said it was ruined by stocking. If it was stocked before it became so great and if stocking is the cause of it sucking now, how did it get so great in the first place while being stocked? If that is the case, the argument has become a little diffuse to me about how stocking ruined it.

I think Sportsman clubs stock the living bejeezus out of stuff because they, like most trout fishers in the state, seem to think it is the only viable way of having trout in our cricks. In Mifflin County when I am talking to people, they cannot even BEGIN to wrap their head around trout being able to exist on their own without being raised in a hatcery.

I remember one fine evening as I was strolling out of Kish and I had an interaction with an older spin fisherman that went something like this:

him: "I just caught a beautiful brown trout right under that bridge! It must have been in here since last year's stocking."

Me: "It was probably a wild brown trout."

him: "I bet that fish has been in here for years! The colors on it were vivid and bright. The fins looked good.

Me: "Most likely it was born in this stream. Like a stream bred trout like nature intended."

Him: "If it isn't a holdover, then they are stocking some fine looking fish in here."

Me: "Maybe it wasn't a stocked fish...."

I eventually walked away, obviously unable to reach this rather ignorant fellow. This guy would probably fit right in our local sportsman clubs, though.

 

[Bamboozle]

Never was?

YWC and its Left Branch were stocked when I first fished there around 1970, and were probably stocked clear back to the earliest days of stocking in the region, when hatchery trout were transported by steam locomotive and horse and wagon. Some of the smaller tribs were stocked also.

After Operation Future went into effect, the right branch was listed as Class A and the PFBC quit stocking it. I'm not sure of the year that happened, but probably in the 1980s.

Around 1999 Western Clinton Sportsmen pressured the PFBC to put it back on the stocking list with help from a state legislator. It was put back on the stocking list and it still is today.

The Left Branch was never taken off the stocking list.

Pretty good recollections!!

I have PA Fish & Boat Commission Summary Booklets going all the way back to 1948 with a lot of holes in my collection between then and 1972 but a complete collection from 1972 to 2024.

I did a quick check and discovered the following about Young Woman's Creek (YWC):

There was no "Approved Trout Waters" lists in the 1948 Summary.​

​

For some reason, YWC wasn't listed at all in the 1960 Summary???​

​

The next Summary in line that I have 1965, showed BOTH branches as stocked.​

​

Both branches were listed as stocked in every consecutive Summary through 1982.​

​

In 1983 only Young Woman's Creek - Left Branch was listed as stocked.​

​

Young Woman's Creek - Left Branch was the only listing in the Summary stocking lists through 2004.​

​

In the 2005 Summary, it appeared on the Summary stocking list as Young Woman's Creek which assumes that was the first year after 1983 that stocking was resumed on the Right Branch.​

I'm too lazy to check 2006 - 2024 and I'm sure Troutbert is correct and both branches have been stocked ever since.

 

[Swattie87]

I don't really know the history of the stream. I just figured it was never stocked since people said it was ruined by stocking. If it was stocked before it became so great and if stocking is the cause of it sucking now, how did it get so great in the first place while being stocked? If that is the case, the argument has become a little diffuse to me about how stocking ruined it.

I think Sportsman clubs stock the living bejeezus out of stuff because they, like most trout fishers in the state, seem to think it is the only viable way of having trout in our cricks. In Mifflin County when I am talking to people, they cannot even BEGIN to wrap their head around trout being able to exist on their own without being raised in a hatcery.

I remember one fine evening as I was strolling out of Kish and I had an interaction with an older spin fisherman that went something like this:

him: "I just caught a beautiful brown trout right under that bridge! It must have been in here since last year's stocking."

Me: "It was probably a wild brown trout."

him: "I bet that fish has been in here for years! The colors on it were vivid and bright. The fins looked good.

Me: "Most likely it was born in this stream. Like a stream bred trout like nature intended."

Him: "If it isn't a holdover, then they are stocking some fine looking fish in here."

Me: "Maybe it wasn't a stocked fish...."

I eventually walked away, obviously unable to reach this rather ignorant fellow. This guy would probably fit right in our local sportsman clubs, though.

I think in the case of YWC, people are referring to the “glory days” as being that period during which it wasn’t being stocked (main stem and Right Branch anyway). From Bamboozle’s post above, it appears this was roughly 1982-2004.

And I wholeheartedly believe that (for wild fish) it likely fished better during that period than now.

 

[bigjohn358]

I would not be at all surprised if more of YMC is not stocked in upcoming years. They just stopped stocking Bakers run on down the road from there. There seems to be more of a push to let some of these streams go back to being wild trout only.

 

[jifigz]

I think in the case of YWC, people are referring to the “glory days” as being that period during which it wasn’t being stocked (main stem and Right Branch anyway). From Bamboozle’s post above, it appears this was roughly 1982-2004.

And I wholeheartedly believe that (for wild fish) it likely fished better during that period than now.

That makes sense. Sometimes I, too, am a little obtuse!

 

[rrt]

When I first began to fly-fish in the late '60s, YWC was heavily stocked. However, because of its wild trout biomass, it was taken off the stocking list about the time the PFBC instituted Operation FUTURE. It remained a wild trout stream until the Western Clinton Co. Sportsmen pressured the commission to "lightly" stock it. A public meeting was held at the WCCS building; several who post on here were at the meeting. I was one. We were a minority in hoping to keep YWC from being stocked, and it got back on the stocking list at that time. Not sure of the date. For me, it became one less place to fish, since I could chase stockers around home if I wanted to catch stocked trout. Pretty sad: I think YWC was the prettiest trout stream I fished, from the time I was in college at Lock Haven (aka the Harvard of the Susquehanna) in the early 1970s. At 74, YWC is pretty much a fond memory from my past.

 

[troutbert]

During the years that the right branch of YWC was listed as Class A and not stocked by the Fish Commission, it was still common to see and catch hatchery trout there. There was "outlaw" stocking going on there.

 

[salmo]

I really used to like YWC before it was stocked. Beautiful little creek. No there’s a pipeline running along the road.

 

[jifigz]

I really used to like YWC before it was stocked. Beautiful little creek. No there’s a pipeline running along the road.

Is it a buried pipeline? How much do we think activities like pipelines hurt the environment around the stream? They run along a lot of stream sections on state lands.

 

[klingy]

I would not be at all surprised if more of YMC is not stocked in upcoming years. They just stopped stocking Bakers run on down the road from there. There seems to be more of a push to let some of these streams go back to being wild trout only.

You know I thought I had heard Baker run wasn’t stocked anymore too, but I just checked the stocking schedule for 2023 and it was stocked in March and April. Maybe not stocked in 2024?

 

[Bamboozle]

You know I thought I had heard Baker run wasn’t stocked anymore too, but I just checked the stocking schedule for 2023 and it was stocked in March and April. Maybe not stocked in 2024?
View attachment 1641233939

It was just added to the Class A List last November so this SHOULD be the first year it won't be stocked by the PFBC.

 

[salmo]

Is it a buried pipeline? How much do we think activities like pipelines hurt the environment around the stream? They run along a lot of stream sections on state lands.

I haven’t been there for years. Not sure if there’s any continuing damage from that pipeline

 

[Mike]

Baker Rn is supposed to be removed from the stocking program due to its Class A status as is the upper part of the Hyner Rn stocked section (for the same reason). The Hyner stocking limits are to be shifted downstream. I think the new upper limit will still be part way into the previously stocked section from my interpretation of what I read, but don’t quote me on that particular detail. It would not surprise me if the possible new extension on lower Kettle and the trout to be stocked there as a result came about at least in part due to the removal of Baker.

 

[bigjohn358]

You know I thought I had heard Baker run wasn’t stocked anymore too, but I just checked the stocking schedule for 2023 and it was stocked in March and April. Maybe not stocked in 2024?
View attachment 1641233939

2023 was the last year of it being stocked. I'm happy to see it finally taken off the list!

 

[bigjohn358]

I haven’t been there for years. Not sure if there’s any continuing damage from that pipeline

From my experience pipelines do not have that much effect on the streams. Maybe they remove a little natural cover in some spots but overall I don't feel they have too much of an impact. These pipelines have been in these areas for a very long time I believe.