I recently purchased an Orvis Superfine Full Flex 4.5 7ft 11in 4wt and was looking for opinions on what line would best suit this rod. I would solely be using this rod as a dry fly rod never needing extreme casting distance or power. I was looking at some of Cortland's 444 offerings, but I am not 100% sure what to get even among those line choices. I would however be willing to buy from any brand. I am super excited to get out and fish this rod once the weather warms up and dry fly fishing gets good again! Thanks!
Choosing a Line
- Thread starter trbillet
- Start date
shortrod
Member
I would avoid any of the heavier than normal lines. Floating of coarse. The Cortland 444 peach lines are great. Orvis always pushed the weight forward lines but I like a double taper and they work fine with the Orvis rods. In the end, its just weight.
Cougarbaby
Active member
Cougarbaby
Active member
I have a DT Rio on my 8ft 6 ich 6 wt superfine and love it roll casts drys nicely and shoots streamers no problem
TimMurphy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2006
- Messages
- 3,280
Dear trbillet,
I agree with what shortrod said. Stick with a traditional line on that rod and avoid the new super lines that are usually over-weighted.
You are kind of close to me. If you are interested, I have a bunch of 4wt and even 3wt lines that you might want to try with that rod. All of them are traditional accurately weighted lines. Maybe we could meet up sometime and you could try them out on your rod?
Just not tomorrow, and not when it's cold and snotty, OK? 😉
Regards,
Tim Murphy 🙂
Bamboozle
Well-known member
That rod will be best suited to a true-to-weight fly line meaning a 4wt line that weighs 120 grains with a standard taper. If it was my rod, it would be a double taper line.
My go line for most of my trout rods which are similar in action is a SciAngler Mastery DT.
Other excellent choices are Cortland 444 Peach Double Taper, 406 Vintage Series Double Taper, Rio Lightline Double Taper, SciAngler Frequency Double Taper, Orvis Hydros Double Taper.
Enjoy your new rod!!
Bamboozle
Well-known member
It's a really nice line, made for 406 by SciAnglers and only 80" long in sizes 2 - 5 which is nice on small reels. At first glance it feels and looks similar to the Sci Anglers Mastery DT except it is shorter in total length but with longer tips and front & rear tapers.
For comparison, below are the specs on three DT4's; a 406 Vintage, Mastery DT and a 444 Peach:
406 Vintage DT
Tip: 22"
Front Taper: 8.0'
Belly: 60.3'
Rear Taper: 8.0'
Rear Tip: 22"
Mastery DT
Tip: 6"
Front Taper: 5.5'
Belly: 79'
Rear Taper: 5.5'
Rear Tip: 6"
444 Peach DT
Tip: 6"
Front Taper: 8.0'
Belly: 73'
Rear Taper: 8.0'
Rear Tip: 6"
YMMV - But I prefer the shortest front taper I can get which is ideal for close in fishing. That's why I am a fan of the SciAngler Mastery DT. I didn't include it, but the Rio Lightline DT also has a short front taper and at least half of it is my favorite color, white so I am anxious to try one this year.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
Anyone know if the RIO Mainstream Trout DT3F (0730884207492) is actually still available? I see that specific line listed on eBay, but I'm leary of trusting if it's the actual line they have advertised. I don't want to order it, only to find they sent me a different weight line. I'm always suspicious of online purchases.
That line delivers dry flies sooo nicely!
That line delivers dry flies sooo nicely!
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Far Bank who now owns Rio lists the Mainstream Trout DT3F on their website so I assume it is a current product:
You do realize that the Mainstream DT3 is 114 grains which is 14 grains heavier than a true-to-weight 3 weight line at 100 grains...
You do realize that the Mainstream DT3 is 114 grains which is 14 grains heavier than a true-to-weight 3 weight line at 100 grains...
wildtrout2
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. No, I wasn't aware of that. But, I've used it in the past and love the way it delivers dries with my 7' 3wt Imperial.Far Bank who now owns Rio lists the Mainstream Trout DT3F on their website so I assume it is a current product:
You do realize that the Mainstream DT3 is 114 grains which is 14 grains heavier than a true-to-weight 3 weight line at 100 grains...
It roll casts beautifully as well.
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StreamBottom
Active member
I have the same rod and fish it with a cortland peach 4wt DT.
It’s a great rod
Enjoy!
wildtrout2
Well-known member
This thread reminded me that the $100 RIO Technical Trout DT3F line currently on my reel, doesn't cast as well with my 7' 3wt Imperial as the $40 Mainstream Trout DT3F line I was using before my vacume cleaner got a hold of it.
I thought a better quality line would improve my casting, I was wrong. Live and learn.
Bam, I ordered the line in the link you shared. Appreciate it.
I thought a better quality line would improve my casting, I was wrong. Live and learn.
Bam, I ordered the line in the link you shared. Appreciate it.
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Bamboozle
Well-known member
I'm not familiar with the characteristics the 7' 3wt Imperial, but the Rio Technical Trout DT3F has a long front taper, as long as 9' - 10' (DT versus WF) and it is "true-to-weight" meaning a 3 wt weighs 100 grains.
The Rio Mainstream Trout DT3F has a short front taper (the specs are not on the website but I assume that means 6' - 7') and it is slightly heavier at 114 grains. BTW - The Rio Mainstream Trout WF3F is a FULL size heavier at 120 grains.
So for reasons unrelated to price, the Rio Mainstream Trout DT3F and the Rio Technical Trout DT3F are two different performing lines. Allow me to offer a long winded 😴 explanation why, assuming you are fishing small streams, making short casts with your 7' 3wt Imperial...
When using the slightly heavier Rio Mainstream Trout DT3F line with a seven foot leader on a cast of 20 feet, this is what is out past the tip top:
7 feet of leader
6 feet of front taper (not much weight)
7 feet of line belly BUT a slightly heavier belly so maybe 7 feet is equivalent to a 3.4 wt fly line belly.
You probably prefer the Rio Mainstream Trout because on short casts, you are getting some of the actual line weight in the belly involved out past the tip top. In addition, that line belly is slightly heavier so even though the cast is short, your rod is loading & performing to your liking.This performance is similar to what many small stream aficionados get on short casts using a line a FULL size heavier than listed on the blank. This works similarly because the full size heavier line loads the rod with less line involved even if the rod is faster or the leader or front taper is longer.
Now revisit performance at the same casting distance (20'), with the same rod and leader length (7') but using the Rio Technical Trout DT3F line. On a cast of 20 feet, this is what is out past the tip top:
7 feet of leader
10 feet of front taper (not much weight)
3 feet of line belly BUT this time, it's a true-to-weight belly and you only have 3 feet involved so maybe the weight is equivalent to a 2.2 wt fly line belly.
You could improve the performance of the Rio Technical Trout line in this scenario by fishing a shorter leader, because every foot off your leader means another foot of line belly is involved.Conversely. if you extend that cast another 10 - 15 feet to 35 feet and get more of the belly of the line involved, the rod will start to feel closer to the way it feels when using the Rio Mainstream Trout DT3F line on a 20 foot cast.
So IF I am right and you are fishing close on your rod, I would assume the more expensive Rio Technical Trout DT3F line sucks in close but maybe isn't so bad on longer casts.
This would also assume the Rio Mainstream Trout DT3F line is great in your normal casting distances but maybe overloads your rod a BIT on something longer. The longer cast overloading feeling would be exacerbated IF your rod is slower but if you never really cast that far with that rod or it is fast, it might not feel like the rod is overloaded.
In summary:
IF you want to make make consistent short casts, long front taper lines suck, regardless of their price. A long leader, big or heavy flies and a fast rod makes the situation even worse.
Overweight lines or over-lining will overcome some of the lack of performance in close but performance will suffer on longer casts, especially with slower rods.
This explains why I am a fan of Scientific Anglers Mastery DT lines. My trout rods are all moderate action and they love being pared with the recommended true-to weight line size written on the blank.
The Mastery Trout DT is true-to-weight with a short front taper (4.8' on a 3 wt line) so on short casts with a short leader my rods load great. My usual small stream leader is only 5' - 6' so that makes things even better. However, IF I fish this line on longer casts, the rod isn't overloaded.
As for me, I don't feel a need for BS "technical" long front taper lines ANYWHERE and I fish places like the Letort all the time. When I want delicacy, I use a longer leader and check my cast so my fly comes down softly.
YMMV - But I hope this helps to explain why line tapers and weight have more to do with performance than price.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
I appreciate you taking the time to describe in detail what's going on with those two different lines using the 7' 3wt Imperial. It gives me a full understanding of why the Mainstream Trout DT3F line works so much better with the rod I'm using. Good stuff!
I never use a leader longer than 7', usually 6.5'. I try to avoid the line/tippet connection from going through my tip top.
I never use a leader longer than 7', usually 6.5'. I try to avoid the line/tippet connection from going through my tip top.
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falcon
Well-known member
To many the numerous line choices today can be confusing. Dont depend on all fly shops to give the best recommendation. Once you understand the differences between front tapers, belly lengths, rear tapers and how the grain weight is distributed along the length of the line you can make a informed decision as to which line is optimum for your casting and fishing habitat. Fly lines are too expensive to just grab any line off the shelf and hope it works. The many choices are a good thing once you understand the nuances.
wildtrout2
Well-known member
It can be a bit confusing and somewhat complex, with the many options availabe. It's a study in itself.
bringthepain
Well-known member
I found this video a few weeks back, worth a watch
Bamboozle
Well-known member
Fly shops sell what they stock and they stock what they think will sell...
That sounds a bit like word salad until you consider terms like "technical, stealthy, slick and delicate" attached to the big $eller$ aren't exactly the terms usually associated with less popular, lower priced fly lines that will work fine for 70% of trout anglers.
The other problem is people don't REALLY know their tackle and even if they do, they are influenced by marketing and the opinions of strangers on the Internet 😀 versus trying to understand WHY they like a certain line on a certain rod.
I know my rods and I know the fly lines that give me the performance I like on those rods. This may sound ridiculous, but I have a spreadsheet I have compiled over the decades where I record the line profiles of those lines and other similar lines. This pays HUGE dividends when the inevitable happens and my favorite line is discontinued or "improved" by the manufacturer.
This happened when Rio discontinued my old favorite line called the Rio Classic. Knowing the specs on the line, I made the switch to the "SciAngler Mastery Trout DT" as it was originally called and I stuck with the "Scientific Anglers Mastery DT" when they changed the name because I had a record of the old line profile so I knew the new line was the same.
It obviously gets a little trickier at times, especially for me with warmwater where I prefer rods that are fast and the flies are bigger. In the case of my most recent rod, a very fast 6 wt, I reviewed line profiles and weights I liked on rods with a similar action. I compared those line specs to what was available to narrow things down...
And made phone calls to Rio & SciAnglers.
After getting the right person on the phone, I described my rod action, how much line I typically aerialized when casting, the flies I use and asked IF the particular line I was thinking about would do the job. Unbelievably, over the years I've had fly line designers from Rio, SciAnglers and even Royal Wulff talk me OUT of more fly lines than I've had fly shops or other anglers talk me INTO a purchase.
Because of taking all of this time and doing the research, the line I hung on this particular 6 wt was a home run and when THIS fly line is discontinued or "improved," I'll know what to look for... 😉
