Brand ambassadors

[rrt]

Oh, I see. You, Dr. Dunn, think I'm a fly-fishing "personality" or photographer. How silly of me not to recognize that that is what you think. (But, at my age, it might have been difficult to recall.)

I'm not a ff "personality. I'm just an old guy who likes to fly-fish.

A little more now: Though those fish were not on redds, I must confess, to my shame, that when I was young, I did try occasionally to catch a trout off a redd. I did not have much luck with that. I have been able to refrain from trying that for many years now. As Muhummad Ali is credited for saying, "The man who thinks the same way at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." I hope at 68 I do not think the same way(s) as I did at 24 (the age of the p. 37 incident to which Dr. Dunn refers).

Anyhow, I hope my original response to the topic, Dr. Dunn's reply to my response, and this response to him do not hijack the original intent of this thread.

 

[salmonoid]

SurfCowboyXX wrote:
"Brand Ambassador"? Don't you mean "Bro Staff"?

What I find ironic is Mr. Hudson is himself one of said ambassadors.

https://www.give-r.com/pages/ryan-hudson

"I am currently a Pro Member with Patagonia, Sage, Orvis, Temple Fork Outfitters, Rio fly lines, Ross Reels, Echo/Airflo, Umpqua and Simms."

I'd like to hear Mr. Patrick Duke's side of the story before rendering judgement, especially if there is a history between them. Mr. Hudson looks like he has a heart squeeze on a taimen he caught in September 2016. Selfie portrait, while rowing and squeezing the fish.

Let he who is without sin (or is not a fish squeezer or is not a redd flosser) throw the first stone.

Anyway, what's more important than what we might have done is what do we not do now that we used to do. And I see that rrt pretty much just wrote that.

 

[bikerfish]

Only "pro" flyfisher that counts in my book is April Vokey. She can do whatever she wants, and hopefully it will include me!!LOL!! The "bros" can shove it.

 

[FarmerDave]

Dear Mr. Tate,

Where can I find a copy of this book, and would you autograph it for me. :lol: ;-)

We have both been on here for a very long tome, and I would never call you a poser or a fishing celebrity. But you definitely have personality.;-)

 

[bigjohn58]

SurfCowboyXX wrote:
"Brand Ambassador"? Don't you mean "Bro Staff"?

When I hear "brand ambassador" or "pro staff" I usually think "wannabe" right away! Most of these "brand ambassador" or "pro staff" people get 10-15% off their already overpriced items. I do a lot of conventional gear fishing for bass and that is the worst for the so called "Pro Staff" label. Its pretty much a joke. I thought it was cool when I first started fishing then I realized its just a way to get you to advertise their products but get next to nothing in return. Most of the "Pro Staff" people get big heads and really think they are something. I ended up finding out that a lot of the companies will allow almost anyone to be a "Pro Staff" if you ask. I'll gladly promote a product if I think its great for free.

 

[ryguyfi]

I hope I can give a unique input on this subject. Honestly, I don't think the "brand ambassador" was the issue of the post. It was "this guy wants his face on a magazine so he's going to break a few rules both written and unwritten to get it done". The problem is wanting notoriety not promoting a certain company or product. I think there's a little bit of gray overlap.

I have brand ambassadors. 5 to be exact. They all add something to my company that help me expand. I have people in other areas of the country to help get brand recognition, have an expertise in an area of fly fishing that I don't, are a good writer and help through online and social media presence, etc. When I started the company it was "ohh you like our stuff, here's a discount, you're a sponsor". That was very flawed as I reevaluated it last year and implemented our brand ambassador program. I think many companies have the latter idea of signing up as many people as they can at a "discount" which gets free advertising and also the sponsors are buying products even at the discount that are very profitable for the company. I have a higher accountability and responsibility for my brand ambassadors and they have to sign a contract for it. There are other good examples of this out there but we are kidding ourselves if we think fly fishing is the only thing out there that has these same issues. Most brands are utilizing others through different forms of media to use individuals to advertise for them.

 

[Fredrick]

I may be slightly wrong but haven't the Beck's made a living off these type of photo shoots ?


Glad you are keeping it ethical Ryan .

 

[FarmerDave]

ryguyfi wrote:
I hope I can give a unique input on this subject. Honestly, I don't think the "brand ambassador" was the issue of the post. It was "this guy wants his face on a magazine so he's going to break a few rules both written and unwritten to get it done". The problem is wanting notoriety not promoting a certain company or product. I think there's a little bit of gray overlap.

I agree with your point. It's the "LOOK AT ME!" mentality which is only getting worse with social media.

What the hell is a Instagram celebrity? I watched the CBS evening news last night and had to laugh at that one. It was about a fatal plane crash with lots of selfies taken before the crash.

I laughed at the term and their actions and not their deaths, but did speculate that maybe that is why they crashed.

Pathetic, but to each their own.

But I do think there is more than a little overlap.

Not complete overlap, and certainly not with your "brand ambassadors." ;-)

Disclaimer, I am not a "brand embassador" for anyone and rarely have a camer when fishing. However, I rarely turn down free stuff, but I did turn down a free donut this morning.

 

[bigjohn58]

I've heard horror stories from people posing with these fish for magazine covers. I enjoy a nice photo of the fish but I'm not going to go out of my way to get some hero shot. I keep a GoPro on a small tripod in the back of my vest. Takes about 15 seconds to set it up and it starts shooting video/photos. Whole process takes well under a minute with the fish in the water for most of that. Do I get perfect photos? No, but its enough for my memory anyways. I'm not going to walk around with a professional photographer just to get fish photos in hopes of becoming famous. I think it was years ago that there was a section of that Fishing Creek down near Harrisburg that Donny Beaver owns that one of these cover photos came from. Private water fish like that don't impress me either and neither do picking them off of redds. There is a fine line there that one just must not cross or you can really become hated!

I believe it was Larry Daubert (could be wrong that it was him) on TV that got in trouble for fighting fish excessively. The camera wouldn't be at the right angle so they'd let the fish go on a run again so it would look better on film or whatever. I guess some of the catches would take 1 to 2 hours to film and get it correctly.

Photos can show how amazing something is but they can easily cause a lot of harm (obviously to the fish in the photo). They can bring awareness to a stream that needs protection or it can bring excessive pressure. Its pretty easy though to tell to what extreme someone went to capture their photos. Just don't let it be you!

 

[bigjohn58]

Fredrick wrote:
I may be slightly wrong but haven't the Beck's made a living off these type of photo shoots ?


Glad you are keeping it ethical Ryan .

Are they the one's that are ALWAYS on the front cover of these magazines?

 

[bigjohn58]

FarmerDave wrote:

ryguyfi wrote:
I hope I can give a unique input on this subject. Honestly, I don't think the "brand ambassador" was the issue of the post. It was "this guy wants his face on a magazine so he's going to break a few rules both written and unwritten to get it done". The problem is wanting notoriety not promoting a certain company or product. I think there's a little bit of gray overlap.

I agree with your point. It's the "LOOK AT ME!" mentality which is only getting worse with social media.

What the hell is a Instagram celebrity? I watched the CBS evening news last night and had to laugh at that one. It was about a fatal plane crash with lots of selfies taken before the crash.

I laughed at the term and their actions and not their deaths, but did speculate that maybe that is why they crashed.

Pathetic, but to each their own.

But I do think there is more than a little overlap.

Not complete overlap, and certainly not with your "brand ambassadors." ;-)

Disclaimer, I am not a "brand embassador" for anyone and rarely have a camer when fishing. However, I rarely turn down free stuff, but I did turn down a free donut this morning.

Social media has made EVERYONE feel like they are a professional outdoorsman :lol:

 

[Bamboozle]

Side stepping the fishing during the spawn thing...

I am old school and think that folks in positions of authority or leadership should be held to a higher ethical standard, especially if what they do requires a "badge" of some sort.

In the case of the guide, he should lose his guide permit AND his fishing license for a year minimum for his violations and the fines should be doubled because he is a guide.

You want to curb it, make it REALLY hurt to break the rules.

While we're at it, I have been advocating similar penalties for the general licensed fishing public for similar infractions, especially littering.

 

[bigjohn58]

Bamboozle wrote:
Side stepping the fishing during the spawn thing...

I am old school and think that folks in positions of authority or leadership should be held to a higher ethical standard, especially if what they do requires a "badge" of some sort.

In the case of the guide, he should lose his guide permit AND his fishing license for a year minimum for his violations and the fines should be doubled because he is a guide.

You want to curb it, make it REALLY hurt to break the rules.

While we're at it, I have been advocating similar penalties for the general licensed fishing public for similar infractions, especially littering.

Much agreed with what you just said there!

 

[Brown71]

I believe there are two very separate issues
1. The guy fished a closed area, no fishing license, no life vest.
2. The guy caught a male brown that was either spawning or had spawned.

One is illegal, one is not. The authors attempt to connect these two issues as one is just as shameful as that clown fishing a closed area with no fishing license. Ok, not even close but you get my point.
I copied Ryansheehans post, couldn't get it to load.




That's exactly the way I see it, good post. Fishing without a license, how freeken stupid!!!!

 

[Fredrick]

bigjohn58 wrote:

Fredrick wrote:
I may be slightly wrong but haven't the Beck's made a living off these type of photo shoots ?


Glad you are keeping it ethical Ryan .

Are they the one's that are ALWAYS on the front cover of these magazines?

They have been on the cover of a few but they are responsible for taking a majority of the cover photos.

 

[tomitrout]

Used to be that you'd go into the local flyshop and tell your tales over stale coffee to whoever would listen, maybe bring in a 3x5 photo or polaroid of your trophy catch for the corkboard by the door. I guess what's changed is that nowadays it's much simpler to commoditize your fishing/whatever prowess through easy to access social media.

Gist I take from the article is that this personal brand marketing is possibly leading to more and more unethical practices out in the field, and the author is calling this out. Justifiably so, imho. As has been mentioned earlier, this is nothing new in the realm of self promotion, just that now local/regional/national/global exposure is only one or two clicks away. It's so easy that pretty much anybody can get in on the game.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I remember being 12 and seeing 'the movie'...that famous line,
"Paulie, what do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I dunno, a professional fly fisherman"
"There's no such thing"

That's the mentality many of us grew up with. Fly fishing wasn't a means to achieve fame. The "bro culture" combined w/ social media has changed all that. Now, guys get into it for 2 years, start thinking they're good enough to "go pro", and it snowballs from there. Heck why even get a mentor and put miles on your boots when you can just watch youtube videos and check the forums for locations? And, if some unethical practices, and some illegal ones to boot, get thrown in, so be it. 'Cause hey, we gotta be professional fly fishermen.

 

[Brianh]

I think this social media star craze spans all facets of life.

On the other hand, maybe were just a bunch of grumpy old men.

 

[Bamboozle]

tomitrout wrote:
Used to be that you'd go into the local flyshop and tell your tales over stale coffee to whoever would listen...

All of social media types with their photos are making harder for us good old fashioned liars. ;-)

 

[Dave_W]

Interesting article - thanks.

While the matter of violations of angling law are clear-cut and incontrovertible.... the matter of hero fish pics and "brand ambassador" stuff is more subtle.

While I have no reason to doubt this writer's claim about the spawning browns in that section of stream (I'm sure the claims are accurate)... using a scuffed tail more broadly to assert without doubt that a fish was spawning is risky.

I have seen and caught many wild browns with battered tails when they were certainly not spawning. This is not proof that a fish was caught while actively spawning. It is common for old, large wild browns to have noticeably eroded lower caudal edges and a photo of an angler with a beat up brown does not automatically allow others to bash the person for "bro culture" (or whatever other offense we might think plagues our sport).