Bonkers for Bluegill

[Fish Sticks]

Highly, highly invasive in Japan. Whew, they have done a number on the aquatic resources there, or so I have read.

Here I would imagine that hybridization is an issue with native sunfish. In new jersey i think native black banded sunfish and mud sunfish have been displaced.

 

[jifigz]

Were bluegill introduced or did they just migrate? Were small ones or eggs dropped out of the sky by birds or weather events? I severely doubt they were introduced to certain watersheds by man but I am not entirely sure.

If you're trying to make the argument stating bluegill and brown trout are both invasive species I don't think you really have ground to stand on. Bluegill primarily live in ponds so they're isolated and their effects are on that exact body of water. Yes, I know they live in moving water too but they have a preference for stillwater. I have NEVER seen any documentation about bluegill having a negative impact on a certain watershed but I am also not part of the fish biologist scientific community so if someone cares to provide evidence suggesting the harmful effects bluegill have on a certain watershed and their evidence is sound I will take that as bluegill being a harmful invasive species.

Brown trout on the other hand have been proven to be harmful. Forget how high they are on the list but I think it's around 30 in a list consisting of 4000 species. This is a list I got from @Fish Sticks. That's a pretty high rating in terms of how dangerous they are. Bluegill also don't have organizations defending them and their harmful effects. Bluegill don't have people refuting scientific data about their harmful effects. I also don't think bluegill are stocked in PA and certainly not stocked in watersheds where they are displacing and ultimately eradicating other species merely by existing. I know that they take over ponds but I don't think they have been introduced by man. There isn't a multi-million dollar agency farming bluegill for the express purpose of getting more license sales and introducing bluegill into unwanted watersheds.

Ultimately bluegill aren't trout, so they don't get the same rights as trout do, so f*** em' I guess. Humans are quite good at playing god and assigning value to certain species aren't we?

Dude, bluegill are stocked in PA often and have been for a long, long time. They are non-native to large areas where they are currently found. Bluegill absolutely would have an impact on native sunfish in places where they overlap with them.

Non-natives are everywhere and bluegill are one of the most abundant non-native fish spread by man all across North America.

 

[jifigz]

Here is one example of the PFBC stocking bluegill..... And it happens all the time by them as well as private citizens.. If I built a farm pond, I would also stock bluegills.

 

[Fish Sticks]

White perch are native to the bay drainages. As are yellow perch. Apparently used to be huge runs before the Dams from what I have read.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Here is one example of the PFBC stocking bluegill..... And it happens all the time by them as well as private citizens.. If I built a farm pond, I would also stock bluegills.
View attachment 1641231723

I did not stock mine they came with the house because neighbor stocks it and their in the creek it empties into. I wanted to get rid of the pond as part of a spring fed wetlands restoration but neighbor on other side of the pond wouldn’t sign on.

 

[DomR]

I knew NJ people were different, but I didn’t know they were a different species. 😂 Makes sense tho.

Heck yeah, we're a breed apart!

 

[jifigz]

I did not stock mine they came with the house because neighbor stocks it and their in the creek it empties into. I wanted to get rid of the pond as part of a spring fed wetlands restoration but neighbor on other side of the pond wouldn’t sign on.

Sure. Understandable. My pond if I build one would be purely fed by rainwater drainage that would be funneled in by the surrounding landscape. There would be no spring source dammed and no water inlet, only a water outlet for when it would overflow from too much rain. I have a perfect location for such a pond and I would like to make it at least an acre big but preferably like 2 acres.

This is on my parents' land, however, and construction can be more expensive than you would realize. I don't think they are fully bought into the idea yet, either. But I would stock that closed system with LMB, bluegill, and Channel Cats and then some smaller baitfish/minnow.

 

[Fish Sticks]

I’m from NJ, thus I am an invasive species in PA…..right??

If someone put you in a bucket and dumped you some place you ate all the flora and fauna then yes you would be. But if you drove here and dod that its just called migration.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Sure. Understandable. My pond if I build one would be purely fed by rainwater drainage that would be funneled in by the surrounding landscape. There would be no spring source dammed and no water inlet, only a water outlet for when it would overflow from too much rain. I have a perfect location for such a pond and I would like to make it at least an acre big but preferably like 2 acres.

This is on my parents' land, however, and construction can be more expensive than you would realize. I don't think they are fully bought into the idea yet, either. But I would stock that closed system with LMB, bluegill, and Channel Cats and then some smaller baitfish/minnow.

My situation is different unfortunately it’s actually pretty harmful thermally because the pond goes RIGHT into a cold water ecosystem and has a spring source that would otherwise flow in cold. It technically is on the wild reproduction list for brown trout(doubtbthere are any on my property) but there are also native slimy sculpins that that pond is an issue for like many pa farm ponds. The owner is up there in years, maybe next owner will be onboard for a removal/ legacy sediment project. I just put down a 1000 trees though for now because I am not holding my breath. Its hard being a landowner navigating conservation sometimes when ya need neighborly cooperation.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

My situation is different unfortunately it’s actually pretty harmful thermally because the pond goes RIGHT into a cold water ecosystem and has a spring source that would otherwise flow in cold. It technically is on the wild reproduction list for brown trout(doubtbthere are any on my property) but there are also native slimy sculpins that that pond is an issue for like many pa farm ponds. The owner is up there in years, maybe next owner will be onboard for a removal/ legacy sediment project. I just put down a 1000 trees though for now because I am not holding my breath. Its hard being a landowner navigating conservation sometimes when ya need neighborly cooperation.

Wondering if this was a legacy pond that was dug and filled so a farmer could reduce his fire insurance. I recall as a kid, being told this was where a lot of farm ponds came from. Could you not fill it in a little at a time (secretly)? Even beaver ponds will fill in eventually if left alone - as would a lot of top-discharge dam impoundments.

 

[6xAdams(Jones)]

Dude, bluegill are stocked in PA often and have been for a long, long time. They are non-native to large areas where they are currently found. Bluegill absolutely would have an impact on native sunfish in places where they overlap with them.

Non-natives are everywhere and bluegill are one of the most abundant non-native fish spread by man all across North America.

Here I thought the eggs were all flown in after getting stuck on waterfowl legs.

 

[wildtrout2]

Wondering if this was a legacy pond that was dug and filled so a farmer could reduce his fire insurance. I recall as a kid, being told this was where a lot of farm ponds came from.

I heard this as well when I was a kid. Makes sense if there's no other water source.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Wondering if this was a legacy pond that was dug and filled so a farmer could reduce his fire insurance. I recall as a kid, being told this was where a lot of farm ponds came from. Could you not fill it in a little at a time (secretly)? Even beaver ponds will fill in eventually if left alone - as would a lot of top-discharge dam impoundments.

Only problem is neighbor loves it and his property borders other shore. I’d actually want to dig down until I hit the gravels that sit ontop of the rock formation in the valley floor and and scrape the rest of the valley clean of dirt so only the historic wetland soils and cobbles present. Could be 5 feet-10 feet deep in my valley.

 

[JeremyW]

I started out only fly fishing for trout. The local creek I fish is stocked with trout and most of the time the sunfish would beat the trout to the fly. It finally dawned on my that I could catch something beside trout on a fly. I enjoy fishing for bluegill. The lake I have had the most success with big bluegill has been Shohola Lake. I'm very happy when I catch bluegills that can inhale a size 6 foam bug.
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those look decent sized!

 

[tomgamber]

Sure. Understandable. My pond if I build one would be purely fed by rainwater drainage that would be funneled in by the surrounding landscape. There would be no spring source dammed and no water inlet, only a water outlet for when it would overflow from too much rain. I have a perfect location for such a pond and I would like to make it at least an acre big but preferably like 2 acres.

This is on my parents' land, however, and construction can be more expensive than you would realize. I don't think they are fully bought into the idea yet, either. But I would stock that closed system with LMB, bluegill, and Channel Cats and then some smaller baitfish/minnow.

if you want really big bluegills, build it on a Dairy farm so when all that corn from the cow pies runs into the drainage the 'gills get a buffet. you'll get a worse algae bloom but hey 'gills like dinner plates.

 

[Nymph-wristed]

Heck yeah, we're a breed apart!

I married a Jersey girl and our kid turned out okay, not golden or anything, and hopefully he can reproduce one day. I am not totally sure that would have happened had I fallen in love with a girl from Delco, however....

 

[Mike]

Ultimately bluegill aren't trout, so they don't get the same rights as trout do, so f*** em' I guess. Humans are quite good at playing god and assigning value to certain species aren't we?

Bluegill in Pa have always been in much greater need of special regs in select waters than wild trout. In fact, the statewide BG regs that have historically existed in Pa (it turns out from research over the past 20 yrs) do not and did not recognize the important behavioral aspects of bluegill biology that naturally prevent stunting. The commonly stunted BG populations in Pa have resulted from overharvest of the larger males, high densties of aquatic plants, limited numbers of aquatic plants in some cases (thus, little insect forage), and in some cases competition for zooplankton by gizzard shad and alewife. Overharvest has been a big problem though and in fact was encouraged out of ignorance even when I was a fledgling biologist in order to ostensibly prevent the stunting panfish, the exact opposite of the message that should have been sent if the knowledge of BG biology today had been available 100 yrs ago. Even in lakes where there are nice size BG, 8” and longer today, they could in some cases be larger with more protection for the larger males. Even the Panfish Enhancement reg applied to some lakes in Pa is inadequate with respect to BG. It only worked well for crappie and had no impact on yellow perch.

 

[jifigz]

Bluegill in Pa have always been in much greater need of special regs in select waters than wild trout. In fact, the statewide BG regs that have historically existed in Pa (it turns out from research over the past 20 yrs) do not and did not recognize the important behavioral aspects of bluegill biology that naturally prevent stunting. The commonly stunted BG populations in Pa have resulted from overharvest of the larger males, high densties of aquatic plants, limited numbers of aquatic plants in some cases (thus, little insect forage), and in some cases competition for zooplankton. Overharvest has been a big problem though and in fact was encouraged out of ignorance even when I was a fledgling biologist in order to ostensibly prevent the stunting panfish, the exact opposite of the message that should have been sent if the knowledge of BG biology today had been available 100 yrs ago. Even in lakes where there are nice size BG, 8” and longer today, they could in some cases be larger with more protection for the larger males.

Great info. I love trophy gills...... unfortunately public PA lakes nearly always disappoint. I've had some private ponds and lakes in other states provide monster gills, though.

 

[Mike]

Great info. I love trophy gills...... unfortunately public PA lakes nearly always disappoint. I've had some private ponds and lakes in other states provide monster gills, though.

Now you know why. Ask yourself, why is it that water supply reservoirs with no legal fishing, lakes with limited public access, and new or reclaimed lakes where angling is prevented for four to six years so frequently have very large BG.

 

[TimMurphy]

Bluegill in Pa have always been in much greater need of special regs in select waters than wild trout. In fact, the statewide BG regs that have historically existed in Pa (it turns out from research over the past 20 yrs) do not and did not recognize the important behavioral aspects of bluegill biology that naturally prevent stunting. The commonly stunted BG populations in Pa have resulted from overharvest of the larger males, high densties of aquatic plants, limited numbers of aquatic plants in some cases (thus, little insect forage), and in some cases competition for zooplankton by gizzard shad and alewife. Overharvest has been a big problem though and in fact was encouraged out of ignorance even when I was a fledgling biologist in order to ostensibly prevent the stunting panfish, the exact opposite of the message that should have been sent if the knowledge of BG biology today had been available 100 yrs ago. Even in lakes where there are nice size BG, 8” and longer today, they could in some cases be larger with more protection for the larger males. Even the Panfish Enhancement reg applied to some lakes in Pa is inadequate with respect to BG. It only worked well for crappie and had no impact on yellow perch.

Dear Mike,

I'm not arguing the point that harvest has a negative effect, but I rarely see bluegill kept in the lakes around central PA. Mostly because the average fish is the size of a credit card.

I see Shohola still produces good sized 'gills. I haven't fished it for over 15 years, but it was always outstanding for bluegills and even yellow perch if you quit fishing for bluegills and sought them out. We would float tube and caught some nice bass, but they were a by catch of our bluegill missions.

Some of the other lakes in that general vicinity produced good sized bluegills too, as did several smaller and even larger lakes in in the Southern Tier of NY. The upper end of Cayuga lake fished like a farm pond at times with plenty of big bluegills.

When you say that part of the problem is attributed to excess aquatic plants or limited aquatic plants is there any chance that those two issues are a water quality issue? Thinking back on lakes where I caught big bluegills over the years most of them had plenty of lily pads and some had almost floating island mats of grass. When you found the right spot and you were very quiet, I swear you could hear the fish sucking bugs off of those pads and grasses, and you could certainly see busy water around them. They also seemed to have rooted weed beds that grew almost to the water's surface. I guess I wonder why some places have the habitat and other places close by don't have it?

I miss fishing for bluegills, and I'll keep looking for decent ones, but so far in 22 years of living in the Harrisburg area I've mostly struck out!

Regards,

Tim Murphy