Berks county class a info

[Kabutt]

Foxgap239 wrote:
I had never heard of Ali G until today and now I'm pissin' myself laughing at that clip! How did ole C Everett not break down???????

Haha - I know right! Ali G was one of the best "trollers" in history. You'd think the Koopster would catch on and realize that this dude can't be serious, but he can't see past his own ignorance...

 

[Kabutt]

gfen wrote:
Members-only'ing a forum keeps the crawlers out. No crawlers, no Google. How do I know? I run a fly fishingish website which is locked to all non-members, and our information doesn't end up on the Googles.

Oh snap, the 5-digit-post-number-Sasha-Grey-avatar-guy comments in reference to my statements. I'm honored!

I didn't realize the crawlers couldn't see members-only stuff. Is this true across the board, or could it be different for different forum platforms (Xoops, vBulliten, etc.)? I do agree that "members-onlying" stuff could be severely limiting to a forum like this.

Can I be part of your super secret fly fishingish site?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

Fox-watch his religion round table. Hilarious.
"Is Jesus real, or is he just your dad in a red suit?"

 

[gfen]

Kabutt wrote:
I didn't realize the crawlers couldn't see members-only stuff. Is this true across the board, or could it be different for different forum platforms (Xoops, vBulliten, etc.)? I do agree that "members-onlying" stuff could be severely limiting to a forum like this.

Can I be part of your super secret fly fishingish site?

Crawlers cannot log in as they don't have the neccessary permissions to do so, regardless of platform. Membership required, no Google trawling. Period.

Restricting access to the prior forums won't limit anything, it will create a massive influx of new users none of which will provide any useful content. The next statement, of course, "why not make a post count limit?" Because whatever you set that limit to will be the requirement people will meet in the lamest way, and no additional content will be generated.

Anyone can be part of the aforementioned site, its not secret at all. However, its also not appropriate to troll for members, nor will I.

 

[wildtrout2]

gfen wrote:
I've sworn off responding to this thread, which is a shame because there's some champion statements made in here.

That said, the following statements have no relevance the drama, so I'm able to weigh in without violating the spirit of my prior statement:

Just couldn't help yourself, could you? lmao Those statements are indeed relevant TO the drama. Spirit violated.

Isn't there a SPECIFIC thread for this non-sense?

 

[Kabutt]

gfen wrote:
Anyone can be part of the aforementioned site, its not secret at all. However, its also not appropriate to troll for members, nor will I.

Wait, was I trolling for your website information? Or do you believe that your mentioning of your website would be construed as trolling for members?

 

[Chaz]

The problem as I see it is the same problem that all anglers have, that is, fly anglers are lazya nd won't go out of their way to search out streams for themselves. They'll keep going to the same streams they've always fished, places like Valley, Tully the LL, Saucon, and so forth because they don't want to expand their horizons.
There is only one stream that I've fished this year that I've gone back to another time, that creek is Pine Creek. The reason is it's big, even when it's crowded you can find places to fish where you don't get bothered. Just about ny other place I don't want people seeing me fishing there, because many of them will simply jam on the breaks and stop and fish right where I am, it's like I'm carrying billboard, that says fish here.
It's not that I don't like other anglers, I simply want to fish alone most of the time. There are a lot of places I won't fish on weekends just because.
Again though, anglers are lazy and don't bust out of it.

 

[SBecker]

You have fished the LL more then once this year. Just sayin....

 

[jdaddy]

The_Sasquatch wrote:
In this case, I found two instances in the last year where both pcray and jdaddy named this stream (in a thread about stocking class A's and another about kid rodeos), so I just figured, "it's done". They weren't the first to name the stream on here (its hardly in either one's nature to "out" a stream that can't handle the pressure), so I'm assuming their attitude was, "It's already been outed" as well.

Sasquatch, your logic that "it's already burned so let me rehash it" when the OP clearly was trying to protect a resource and made the mistake of PM'ing you is flawed imo. Even though I don't post here often any longer, the OP had PM'd me and I replied giving him advice on the stream. But spelling out the first 4 or 5 letters then stating "ooops I made a mistake in mentioning it" to only then go on and continue with the position that it's a known stream is faulty, again imo. To go further and say "it's out of the bottle so what do we do about it?" when you were the one who unbottled it seems quite silly. A lot of fence straddling going on.

I can only speak for myself, however my mention of Wyomissing involved stocking fish in class A limestone streams. Hardly a spot burn. If you look a little further back you will find an exhaustive stream report that references amazing catches and stream side pizza delivery. There is a difference. Surely you can see that?

Having said that, not only is PAFF increasing pressure on this stream, TCO certainly does as well. I have respect for both parties however each is contributing to an increase in pressure. However, at the end of the day, its a stream that used to have some decent sized fish which has been decimated and now contains small levels of naturally reproducing browns in the lower section and reproducing rainbows in the upper section. Good luck finding a fish over 8". If you do it will be a stocker left over from a kiddie festival.

Pat, go ahead with your inclination and burn every stream to the ground. You don't live here any longer, what do you care? It will be a ton of fun watching all the pressure spread out.

Look folks, there are a TON of class A streams not only in Berks County but throughout the region. Go onto the PFBC and check them out. They are on the list for a reason. If one wants to spot burn every class a stream in a given county simply go onto PFBC, copy and paste each class a stream. Again, they are on the list for a reason.

Frankly I don't care one way or another. I spend a huge amount of volunteer time making these streams better for the fish, for the environment and for the fishermen. Mentioning a stream is not a cardinal sin. Bragging about your catches and gloating is any given persons prerogative. High fives and NICE FISH all the way around. The spot burning discussion is very tiring and off putting to everyone. Why not just fish?

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I admit I do walk the fence when it comes to this.

Originally I did PM the OP, as the thread went on I kind of just got pissed off at the whole "spirit" of what was going on. I was feeling like this was getting to the point of ridiculousness. That's when I just flat out said the stream name. After the first few posts, I couldn't help but feel like its a shame that some folks were intimidated to the level of feeling like they have to leave somewhat criptic messages when asking for help.

I agree, there is a difference between hero posts and how you mentioned the Wyo. I didn't mean to throw you or Pat under the bus in any way at all. I saw what was going on in this thread as no different from how you or Pat mentioned the stream. Different topics, obviously, but certainly not going into the realm of the type of post you referenced about pizza delivery.

"Mentioning a stream is not a cardinal sin"
I guess that was REALLY my point. Didn't mean to muddy it all up.

 

[GreenWeenie]

After the first few posts, I couldn't help but feel like its a shame that some folks were intimidated to the level of feeling like they have to leave somewhat criptic messages when asking for help.

How do you know they felt intimidated to the point they had to ask cryptic questions, did you ask them and they told you? Or did you once again assume something like you and others did in Sal’s kiss off post (someone must have PM’d him something bad about writing stream reports so that‘s why he‘s not doing it anymore)?

Maybe, just maybe the person posting didn’t want to get specific for good reason. Let it be.

And you are right, mentioning a stream is not a cardinal sin because just mentioning a stream does not necessarily separate it from other streams depending on the question. Example.

Someone posts, “I am going to Potter County this weekend, want to fish some mountain stream can anyone help?” Someone writes back, “Try any of these 10 streams (names them)” and stream X happens to be an absolute goldmine for 12” brook trout. Nothing was said and stream X is just one of 10 streams named. Now if the response included (or someone added), “Stream X is probably the best stream there and it has hundreds of brooks in the 12” range I caught 100 in one day last year,” stream X is now separated and highlighted from the other 9 streams.

There’s a huge difference.

And it’s not just about remote streams because most people aren’t going to drive 4 hours to fish some remote stream no matter what is said (it may attract the attention of those people who were going up that way anyway that would have fished other streams) but for the most part it’s not going to convince someone to drive 4 hours. HOWEVER, tell something special or single out a stream that’s within 1 hour from densely populated areas and it probably will attract attention.

 

[The_Sasquatch]

I don't believe I assumed anything w/ Sal's "Kiss off" post. You must have me confused w/ someone else.

Perhaps "intimidation" wasn't the right word, but the comment about all the back and forth crap led me to believe that the poster was timid to post the stream name simply because of the "crap". I apologize if I assumed incorrectly.

 

[NickR]

I swear this place gets stranger by the day.

Greenweenie, are you from New Jersey?

 

[GreenWeenie]

Chaz wrote

Spot burning is all a scam. Can't help with at least a location, town or stream name. I've fished plenty of Berks streams, and I'm always willing to share, but there's a negative element on this board that doesn't want people naming any stream. It's a very different place now then it was 5 or 10 years agos. IT's gone downhill because of the complaints about spot burning.

Chaz Then Wrote

Just about ny other place I don't want people seeing me fishing there, because many of them will simply jam on the breaks and stop and fish right where I am, it's like I'm carrying billboard, that says fish here.

Kind of a bit contradictory if you ask me. Writing up streams on a forum is a scam and nobody pays attention to the reports but yet you’re afraid to be seen fishing a stream because it advertises to everyone who drives by to stop and fish here? Interesting logic there.

But you know what, the first and last sentence of your last post actually sums up quite nicely the big debate on spot burning: (1) most people are too lazy and don’t go out of their way to find new streams and (2) you, (like many of us), consider peace and solitude a huge factor in the fishing experience. And that right there is what upsets the majority of people who are against outing streams – the loss of peace and solitude. Once that is gone it cannot be replaced. It is not like stocked trout that can be replaced by the good old white truck. Many people have a stream or two that flies under the radar screen where they can find some good fishing in peace and solitude and most of these streams are within an hour drive of their house. And then along comes someone who happens to stumble upon it and then decides to broadcast it to the world for everyone to see and all the lazy folks who don’t explore and never would have gone there in the first place are now handed a new place to try on a silver platter with ZERO effort. And let’s be real, people don’t go to a new stream, get skunked, and write a report saying don’t go here it sucks. Most outings of streams are the hero reports of went here, found this, caught these, great stream.

And in some instances, the addition of even just 2-3 new fishermen to the stream can totally wreck the peace and solitude experience because in many instances it's not the whole stream that is really good but rather 3-4 small sections.

 

[GreenWeenie]

NickR,

Yes I am so what's the difference? I've said that before.

You seem to have this strange obsession of me. Creepy.

 

[NickR]

Strange obsession with you? Haha no I have an obsession with my wife and daughter and maybe eating BBQ... I am sure your a nice guy but...

What is the difference if your from New Jersey or PA? Did I ever say there was a difference? My wife is ftom Jersey... I was just going to ask if you ever fish the Raritan. I visited it one time but did not fish. I was in the K. Lwood Gorge. Great looking water. Next year I want the jersey license so I might can fish it.

 

[pcray1231]

Many people have a stream or two that flies under the radar screen where they can find some good fishing in peace and solitude and most of these streams are within an hour drive of their house.

You and I are very different, at least when it comes to the smaller, off the radar type places. On the big streams (usually well known), if fishing is good I may return relatively often. That's generally the "hatch chasing" side of me.

But when it comes to the small, off the radar stuff, that's the "stream chasing" side of me. What I value are NEW experiences. I don't have "my" spots that I go back to. Most of them I've only fished once or twice in my life. Once I've hit a spot, I rarely return, even if it was good. I've had that experience. I remember it, I can re-experience it in my head and through pictures. I don't need to do it again.

I do make exceptions on occasion, for instance if I have someone with me and I want to be sure I show them a good time, yeah, I'll take them to a place I know. Even then, though, I see it as for them, not for me. Those spots are once a year/only with friends type places. I want to give them that feeling I had when I went there the first time, rather than take a chance on the unknown.

"My" trips are with the intention of hitting a stream or stream section that I've never fished. Maybe I found it on a map. Maybe someone told me about it. Maybe I read it here. Maybe I fished a different spot on the same stream and wondered what it was like farther up. Maybe I return only because I passed by a trib last time, and want to see what that's like. Doesn't matter. It's a potential spot that I haven't experienced, and that's what I'm after. The goal is to fish everywhere once.

And I don't mind helping others have that experience. What I've fished, it's in my wake, I'm done with it, it's not "mine" anymore, and hiding it doesn't do me a lick of good. There's nothing to be selfish about, I've already got what I wanted. I personally don't care if it gets "outed", I'd be happy to know I helped others have the same positive experiences I've had. The only reason I don't out everything is public backlash and, if I was told about it, respect for the friend who told me.

As I said, my preference would be that we all out everything. But this is a community, I'm part of it, and I'll generally play by it's rules.

 

[GreenWeenie]

I fully understand where you are coming from and we are different. You are very fortunate in that you have the ability and time to explore all these streams unfortunately, many of us don’t have that luxury for a whole host of reasons.

For many of us, fishing is limited to maybe one weeknight and then one day on the weekend. Over the course of time we have found numerous streams that offer peace, solitude and decent fishing and having and maintain those precious few streams is important. While I do travel 4-5 hours to fish new places, it’s not something I do every other week.

I fully understand your second to last paragraph and totally understand where you are coming from and all I will say is I wish your reason for not outing the stream (public backlash) was instead out of a courtesy to others who are less fortunate and cannot travel all over, or who are not looking for the same experience as you by fishing every stream, and simply wish for “their” stream to remain as is. As you noted, everyone is different and outing a stream to help others experience what you experienced, well, not everyone wants the same experience as you so you may be helping one cause and hurting another. Neither is right, neither is wrong, they are different and what helps one hurts the other and that works both ways (outing streams, not outing streams)

In my opinion outing a stream is no different than wading into someone’s pool while they are fishing it – it’s not being courteous and conscientious of others who may be fishing it.

 

[Keppenbill]

I really didn't mean for this post to go so far. It wasn't that i was intimidated i have just seen other posts go south very quickly and being a new member i wanted to be respectful. this stream might not be the gem i see it as but the people i meet here are always very nice even if i don't catch fish a good time is always had.

 

[pcray1231]

You are very fortunate in that you have the ability and time to explore all these streams unfortunately, many of us don’t have that luxury for a whole host of reasons.

Yeah, well, that whole host of reasons hit me this year pretty hard, I really don't have much time, and haven't been fishing much lately. I go to work at 6:30 a.m., get home after 6 p.m, have sole responsibility for our 9 month old until 8:30 p.m. or so. So no fishing during the week, period. Weekends is all I got, and half of those are taken. Other than our trip to the beach, I haven't wet a fly line in over a month now.

I still hold that same base philosophy. I just don't get to explore as many places as I used to. How often you fish doesn't have a big say in this, its what you choose to do when you do fish.

I like to travel hours to fish if I can, but it's rare. I don't have to, and neither do many. Berks County has over 50 wild trout streams. Chester County has better than a dozen. Lancaster has a few more. If you set out to fish every foot of each of those streams, how long would it take you? And that's just trout, add warmwater species and you could fish almost a lifetime, never hit the same place twice, and never travel more than an hour. And this ain't even one of the better fishing regions of the state!