Berks Co. Locations For Mid August

[Swattie87]

Looking up from the bridge, 100 yards or so up, the stream makes a left turn. On the right was an overhanging bush. There was a large, 20 something inch class brown that lived under that bush. Were you in on that fish? I remember several board members had said something about they knew where a big brown lived in Berks (without naming the stream or location). I didn't think too much of it, sure, we've all run across one right? One year at the jam we all got to talking and drinking, it came up, we all realized we were talking about the same fish, lol. Several excursions followed, by several people, with the intent of catching that very fish. I'm gonna try a black bugger, the next guy would want to dry dropper it, next guy would go at first light and put a hopper over it. We'd then relay our tries to the others via PM. All failed that I'm aware of, you'd cast, nothing would happen. Then when you give up you'd walk up and look, and sure enough, it was still there, and upon seeing you it'd casually slide under a weed bed, laughing at you. Occurred over a period of 3 years or so.

I feel free saying it because that was like 2007-2010 time frame, lol.

Yeah. That fish was before my time on the stream.

 

[JeffP]

I keep thinking I want to go back in the Summer and plop hoppers in the chutes between the weed beds and along the channel walls, but have never done it. I’ve never actually seen Trout in it, other than the ones I’ve caught (all small Brookies) from the dam hole. And one time I saw a larger, low teens fish in the dam hole. It was a Trout, don’t know what species though. I’ve seen plenty of Sunnies and LMB in it. And a large carp.

I caught 1 really nice broke at the dam hole. I did try hoppers but no luck. I guess the LMB could come up and eat the brooks. I'm not sure when it was labeled class A. I am guessing the lake has been there for a while but it would be nice to see another 1/2 of creek instead of the dam. I have caught some wild rainbows in the watershed. Some nice trico hatches I would love to get back and fish.

 

[tomgamber]

I learned to cast by throwing upstream under the road to the light on the other end. Let it drift back in the darkness toward the lake and listen for the "kiss".

 

[Mike]

The survey that produced the Class A designation was probably about 30 yrs ago. The sampling site extended from the dam upstream. ST adults were common came from beneath either the layer of aquatic plants or the wall. Trout were very sparse downstream from the dam as the channel was full of sediment and the shade in the wooded area eliminated most of the aquatic plants. Therefore, there was very little cover. Finally, a short stretch above and below the road to the lake used to be a no fishing zone when I was a kid. For all I know it also extended to the source. It would look a lot like a trout hatchery raceway in winter around and within sight of the road except that the fish were adult LMB of various sizes. The bass were most likely seeking the warmer (than the lake) inflow water. I'm was also told that YP used to do the same thing in some years.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, yes, the shade in the wooded section eliminates the aquatic plants, but they start again immediately upon exit of that section. As soon as the woods end, the plants begin again.

Plants are there in winter too. When fishing, there are times when it is hard to hit water, lol.

Interesting that the brookies were mainly above the dam. I have never seen a fish of any type above the dam. The substrate seems to be fine gravel below and above the dam, I never saw a difference, cept there is silt right by the mouth.

The presence of bass and apparantly some large brown trout below the dam maybe makes sense of why brookies wouldn't be down there as much though.

 

[sarce]

Well, yes, the shade in the wooded section eliminates the aquatic plants, but they start again immediately upon exit of that section. As soon as the woods end, the plants begin again.

Plants are there in winter too. When fishing, there are times when it is hard to hit water, lol.

Interesting that the brookies were mainly above the dam. I have never seen a fish of any type above the dam. The substrate seems to be fine gravel below and above the dam, I never saw a difference, cept there is silt right by the mouth.

The presence of bass and apparantly some large brown trout below the dam maybe makes sense of why brookies wouldn't be down there as much though.

Friend of mine grew up fishing that stream and it was apparently quite incredible in the not so distant past...about 20 years ago. Sounds like it is being neglected. These spring creeks with low gradient can't flush out sediment on their own as frequently as freestone mountain streams. Especially not one with dam on it. Sounds like a restoration project waiting to happen.

 

[JeffP]

With its sparkling clear limestone water and past class A Brookie status, you certainly think it would have many friends and would be closely watched. Where is this sedimentation coming from? There is a YouTube video of a guy fishing it with a spinning rod. He had no luck but the water looked beautiful.

 

[JeffP]

Per Joe Armstrong; "In the future it will be will known for the powerhouse it is."And the "The Fish Commission is scrambling to create special regulations."

 

[Mike]

Well, yes, the shade in the wooded section eliminates the aquatic plants, but they start again immediately upon exit of that section. As soon as the woods end, the plants begin again.

Plants are there in winter too. When fishing, there are times when it is hard to hit water, lol.

Interesting that the brookies were mainly above the dam. I have never seen a fish of any type above the dam. The substrate seems to be fine gravel below and above the dam, I never saw a difference, cept there is silt right by the mouth.

The presence of bass and apparantly some large brown trout below the dam maybe makes sense of why brookies wouldn't be down there as much though.

Regarding the substrate, what you saw differed from what you would have felt when the ST population was so good. Above the dam the substrate center channel was firm. Downstream from the dam to the road you sunk in as you waded center channel. There was a lot more of that fine gravel and sediment combination below the dam than above.

Fast forward…The last time I was there the little trib coming in from the right when heading upstream from the dam seemed to be a source of a lot of silt.

 

[sarce]

Per Joe Armstrong; "In the future it will be will known for the powerhouse it is."And the "The Fish Commission is scrambling to create special regulations."

That quote was in my mind as well! I found that book in a used book pile in a store in Ocean City MD of all places...it was a major inspiration for me to explore more streams, once I got my driver's license.

 

[silverfox]

Per Joe Armstrong; "In the future it will be will known for the powerhouse it is."And the "The Fish Commission is scrambling to create special regulations."

23 years later...

I wonder what that would've all looked like prior to channelization and damming?

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Those three like most of the small Class A's in Berks are warm this time of year, a lot warmer than you would think being that they are Class A.

I lived there for 17 years and visited those streams on many hot days, so I'll challenge you on that statement. That said, I would not fish them if the ambient air temperature was 100 degrees.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

Out of curiosity, are these spring creeks, or freestone?

All limestone influenced.

 

[Bamboozle]

I lived there for 17 years and visited those streams on many hot days, so I'll challenge you on that statement. That said, I would not fish them if the ambient air temperature was 100 degrees.

I'll take you up on that bet any day you wish to come back east to lose your money.

I live on the headwaters of the Perkiomen and there is NO way that stream has been any cooler than 70+ degrees any day this week when it has been in high 80's low 90's...

Same with the West Branch, Pine, Bieber and the others in the eastern part of the county which are the streams I was talking about...

As far as limestone influenced, maybe Peters, the Tulpehocken and a few others but the eastern Berks streams are far from limestone streams, even the headwaters of the Little Lehigh is not a limestoner.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

I'll take you up on that bet any day you wish to come back east to lose your money.

I live on the headwaters of the Perkiomen and there is NO way that stream has been any cooler than 70+ degrees any day this week when it has been in high 80's low 90's...

Same with the West Branch, Pine, Bieber and the others in the eastern part of the county which are the streams I was talking about...

As far as limestone influenced, maybe Peters, the Tulpehocken and a few others but the eastern Berks streams are far from limestone streams, even the headwaters of the Little Lehigh is not a limestoner.

I think I know the Perkiomen watershed better than you and have temperature readings in file to prove it. I also lived in the Manatawny watershed, less than 3 miles from Pine and Bieber. I know these streams well. I'd be sure your stream thermometer is accurate before making any bets.

 

[Bamboozle]

I think I know the Perkiomen watershed better than you and have temperature readings in file to prove it. I also lived in the Manatawny watershed, less than 3 miles from Pine and Bieber. I know these streams well. I'd be sure your stream thermometer is accurate before making any bets.

I'll stick to what I see in my backyard, my readings & thermometer and you can stick to being an armchair expert 3000 miles away.

 

[TPrettyman]

I'll take you up on that bet any day you wish to come back east to lose your money.

I live on the headwaters of the Perkiomen and there is NO way that stream has been any cooler than 70+ degrees any day this week when it has been in high 80's low 90's...

Same with the West Branch, Pine, Bieber and the others in the eastern part of the county which are the streams I was talking about...

As far as limestone influenced, maybe Peters, the Tulpehocken and a few others but the eastern Berks streams are far from limestone streams, even the headwaters of the Little Lehigh is not a limestoner.

Fished perkiomen yesterday, USGS gauge is as accurate as my thermometer - hasn't been under 80 during the day in the entirety of August. When I was fishing it in early July it was near the same temps.

We are suffering this summer. Even Tully has been super warm.

 

[Mike]

I'll stick to what I see in my backyard, my readings & thermometer and you can stick to being an armchair expert 3000 miles away.

As I suspect you fellows know, temperature readings can vary by location on the same stream. I say that only because there are differences among the three strams, upper Perkiomen (Class A section, less than Class A wild trout section), Pine, and Bieber. The Class A section of the Perk has some pretty darn low gradient in places and can be a bit sluggish, which under low flow conditions can boost water temps. Farther down the gradient picks up and becomes more consistent and steeper, so it would be no surprise if it is cooler down there. Once it gets to Hereford the gradient declines again, but because it is now shaded much better than 30 yrs ago, the abundance of wild trout down to the stocked stretch seems to have picked up.

Pine starts as a deeply shaded, wooded wetland with low gradient that quickly improves. It is cold in the upper part of the Class A stretch all of the way down to near Lobachsville, where it starts to warm up and loses gradient. It probably gets somewhat warm at times just below Lobachsville to its confluence with Bieber.

Bieber starts out warm in the headwaters near Dryville (creek might have been dry there when I passed over it yesterday) and then gets cooler between Dryville and Rt 12/Pricetown Rd. It gets much better below there as the gradient really picks up, the stream enters and passes through a hollow, and it picks up some small springs and trib(s). Exiting the hollow it loses gradient but maintains a fair amount of shade. It gets warmer, but still supports a Class A population and carries that all of the way to the Pine confluence. Would not be surprised if it warms into some stressful temps in the very lower part of the Class A segment at times, but it has improved over the years sine the upper half of the Class A stretch was established following a 1988 survey, but the lower part did not become Class A until around 2015 give or take, and that was because of temperature effects for the most part.

Without any attempt at being flippant, the beauty of all of this is that fish can swim. This allows them to move upstream to cooler temps (usually, but w/ exceptions in some waters as noted above), or to trib mouths, upwellings beneath trib mouths, or to the rare, larger “mid-channel” upwellings. As I said previously, I only ran into or saw a pic of a sizable, multi-fish (wild trout) accommodating, mid-channel upwellings or springs twice in my career on hundreds of trout stream sections. Of the two, one was occupied by wild browns; the second was not being utilized by the wild brooks because the major upwelling, which for all intents and purposes was a mid-channel spring, and other near-by springs were keeping the entire downstream channel cold. That spring (upwelling) was the upper limit of the Class A section where the vast majority of the ST lived year-around.

On another occasion (ST) and possibly a second (BT), I was fortunate to be at the right place at the right time to have discovered that most fish in a localized population had moved, presumably upstream, in a matter of a day or a few days and, of course, the 1977 tagging study in Penns showed considerable movement of at least a segment of the population in an upstream direction. In contrast, however, I have seen wild BT in another warming Class A stream apparently just hold position while in obvious stress. Perhaps they moved at a later date. I suspect that Penns occurrrence could have easily been temperature related given that they moved from a known marginal temp area to a known colder area.

I don’t presently buy into the idea that cold upwellings are all that important as temperature refuges in much of Pa only because I don’t think they are very common or generally very large, large enough or frequent enough to accommodate enough fish to be important at the population level. They might be important in keeping cold sections uniformly cold, such as at base flow, but not in providing well defined refuges for tight congregations of fish in warm or warming stretches. Perhaps they are in other geological formations. I am not saying that I have not seen an occasional single trout in a cold seep coming out of an embankment along a warmwater river or stream, such as the lower Delaware or middle Schuylkill where it is intersected by some limestone geology, but the occasional refuge for a single fish is not what I am speaking about when speaking large upwellings.

Clearly, fish have various strategies to adapt to warming water conditions. In my view trout movement is a more effective and more common means for mass escapement from warming waters as long as it is done before the temperature stress and penalties for such energy expenditure in warming water are too great.

 

[afishinado]

Yes, streams can vary a bit in temperature here and there, but many streams are now too warm to fish or right on the brink. The long and short of it is, if you care about wild trout, give them a break and choose not to fish for them in the heat of the summer unless you fish a spring-fed stream or tailwater. Why not just have fun fishing for warmwater species for a few weeks? (ya know, trout are sissies compared to smallies or even sunfish). Soon (hopefully) things will begin to cool down and fishing for trout will be back into play.

 

[Oregon_OwlII]

I'll stick to what I see in my backyard, my readings & thermometer and you can stick to being an armchair expert 3000 miles away.

Chaz (whom you may know from this board) and I conducted a study on pond and stream temperatures that was accepted by the PA DEP as part of the watershed assessment of the Perkiomen watershed. That included reference streams in neighboring sub-watersheds. We got one 75 degree reading one time on the main branch of the Perkiomen (Class A section) when the ambient temperature was 103 degrees F. The Perkiomen is influenced by the presence of about a dozen ponds in that section. West Branch never got above 70 and Pine Creek above the juncture of Bieber never got above 69. The data was not 3000 miles away, but all collected within 8 miles of Herford. You know where that is, right? Thanks for your interest.