another flouro vs. mono debate

[stevehalupka]

I'm sure this has been rehashed multiple times, but in terms of visibility, would 4x of mono be less visible than 3x of flouro?

I know this is subjective to the manufacturers diameters, but relatively speaking...

 

[pcray1231]

Yes.

I personally think the invisibility of flouro is well overblown. I've compared equal diameters of both under water and don't see much difference. Frankly, I think we're all fooling ourselves if we pretend fish are line shy to begin with. I think fish are drag shy, and when you go to a smaller tippet, you help with drag as well, and we're fooling ourselves in thinking the effective change was visibility.

In any case, even if visibility is a factor, it would only be a factor underwater, not on the surface, so any advantage there is lost with dry flies.

That said, aside from visibilty, flouro has some advantages (and disadvantages).

Advantages of fluoro: Better knot strength. Less stretch can be an advantage for hook sets and such. Doesn't degrade due to UV light, so your old spools don't go bad and you don't gotta worry about storage as much. Higher abrasion resistance, so line doesn't wear out in use as quickly.

Disadvantages of fluoro: Stiffer, so a drag free drift is more difficult (though this depends on brands, so there might be some overlap). Denser, so it doesn't float as high, so for dries a drag free drift is even more difficult. Stretch can be your friend on big fish. The fact that it doesn't degrade brings up environmental issues. The abrasion resistance thing makes keeping shot where you want it more difficult.

So, in terms of getting picky fish to hit, I think 4x mono might be better than 4x flouro!

 

[MKern]

The fish can see it whether or not it's 1x or 12x.

I like floro because I'm vicious on tippet.

 

[GreenWeenie]

Personally I’ve fished enough side-by-side attempting see if flouro is better and I have come to the conclusion that for trout fishing, regular mono tippet performs better.

I agree with pcray, it’s more about drag than anything else and flouro is stiffer than soft mono and is more likely to cause drag. And flouro does sink so if you are using a small dry fly, flouro is not the tippet to use.

 

[jayL]

pcray covered it well.

To those concerned about line shy trout, I ask what you do to prevent the fish from seeing the bend and point of the hook, because that's a much bigger red flag imo.

 

[MKern]

Jay,
Not to mention the halo at the head with the knot (whether mono or floro) which is huge.

 

[Lonewolve]

I'm not sure flourocarbon is what is hyped,IMHO i think it comes down to the application.I use Maxima Chameleon for the butt and midd sections sometimes Ultragreen for the tippet.Reason being is that I have done a ton of Steelheading/Salmon/Lakerun Brown Trout flyfishing,anyone worth their salt knows that The Salmon River is notorius for being hard on equipment.Maxima is still the standard that other monofilament and flourocarbons are measured by.Also i fish the Lehigh River and The Broadhead Creek alot and IMHO they are two of the waters locally that are hard on leaders and tippet.
In the past i also loved Orvis SuperStrong it is an excellent tippet material.But flourocarbon IMHO is way overrated. I mean what did anglers do before flourocarbon? They caught fish and plenty of them using leaders and tippets made of mono and before that silk.
It all comes down to anglers laziness as far as im concerned we live in a society of whiny babies that are lazy and complacent. its far easier to just go and buy the next great easy way to catch a fish then it is to go out there fish and learn.I am from the school that puts their time in and earns their way to knowledge.Big rewards come from the satisfaction of learning and succeeding.
Some will take offense to my comment but facts are facts. Monofilament still works and will continue working its proven and ifthe leader is tied properly and the cast is made correctly as well as the most important part the presentaion is accomplished properly = fish on.
sorry to rant but see this debate time an time again.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[pcray1231]

Lonewolf,

Interesting that you rave about chameleon and Orvis superfine, but cut down fluoro. I like both for leader material, but not tippet. They are among the stiffest mono's available, though more abrasion resistant than most. i.e more similar to the fluorocarbon end of the spectrum.

Chameleon is a true mono material, a single nylon strand, and has all of the characteristics of such.

Most so-called "mono" tippet materials are not monofilament at all, they are copolymers. These have at least 2 nylon strands which are held together by a resin. This is done to make the material more supple, and less memory. The trade-off is that you lose abrasion resistance the more supple you get.

Orvis Superstrong is a copolymer, but its among the stiffest, most abrasion resistant offerings on the market. What you are telling me with your choice of tippets is that you value abrasion resistance over suppleness and drag free drifts. And thats fine, it makes sense for your application. But if thats the case, it confuses me why you hate fluoro?

 

[TUNA]

I'm the opposite of you guys. I basically only use fluoro. I use Rio Fluoroflex Plus from 3x to 6x, and I love it. I never have problems with knots or splitshot. I used mono in the past and I still use it for the butt section of my leaders, but thats it. I can usually fish all day with 2-3 nymphs and a few splitshot, without changing tippet. I still catch as many fish in the first hour as I do in, say, the 4th hour using the same tippet. If the tippet breaks or gets scratched up, which is almost never, I change it. In December I was fishing a local stream with a size 22 para midge dry fly and small dropper about 3 feet down. I used 6x fluoro for my tippet and dropper and had no problem. It didn't sink the dry. That same day I was using a tippet ring, too. In fact, I've never had a dry fly sink because of my fluoro tippet. I'll agree that the cost of it sucks, but I go through way less tippet. I can make 2 or 3 nymph rigs at home and use them weeks later without any problems at all. I also like the fluoro because I'm clumsy and my tippet holder falls in the water a lot. With fluoro it can get wet and be fine, mono is usually ruined once it gets wet and dries. I've never noticed any issues with drag either, and I fish nymphs (Czech, Polish, French, American, Canadian, Bosnian, whatever they're called this week) most of the time. I don't see how similar diameter lines would vary that much, when it comes to drag. I understand that fluoro is more stiff, but with 2-3 weighted flies and splitshot, I highly doubt the stiffness comes in to play much.

I will state that not all fluor is equal. I've tried a few other brands and have yet to find anything that compares to Rio Fluoroflex Plus, not even the regular Rio Fluoroflex. I will use whatever equipment I have the most confidence in, and in this case fluoro wins, for me, hands down.

 

[Lonewolve]

Pcray,
I like Orvis Super Strong for tippets,Maxima For butt/mid sections and ultragreen for tippets too.When the flouro first came out in the 90's i bought a spool or mirage never liked it .I do like Seaguar for Saltwater and have used it for tippets on Great Lakes Tribs,But i prefer maxima and i have no problem gettin drag free drifts fishing dries,who knows under when nymphing only somuch you can do there. I catch my share of fish .
I do not have any Rio flouro or mono tippet material.
I prefer double taper flylines,Cortland 444 being my favorite,but about 12 years ago i bought my first wf. It is a Rio Windcutter,and now i have four of these in 4,5, and 6 wts .I Own and use a Trout Spey rod alot and also Have two Rio Windcutter spey lines all floaters 4/5 and a 5/6.
I have been toying with trying the Rio flouro for tippet but its expensive and i dont know which to choose.
in past when Fred Reese had a shop i tried that Dai Riki tippet and had some satisfaction but when that spool ran out i purchased another spool same stuff from Nestor's and that spool was a night mare.
Since then i have stuck with what works for me .so maybe ill try some Rio powerflex i think thats flouro and see if i like it,but as for drag free drifts i build my own leaders and also degrease the tippet never have trouble.
Tight Wraps & Tight Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[TUNA]

I tried the Dai-Riki fluor and it was the worst tippet I've used, by far. It was terrible in every way imaginable. Try the Rio Fluoroflex Plus, you may like it.

 

[pcray1231]

Lonewolf,

Rio Powerflex is not fluoro. A copolymer. I've found it to be very supple, thats what I use. Rio's fluoro version is Fluoroflex.

Of the Fluorocarbon lines, I haven't tried too many, but the best I've found was Seaguar.

 

[Lonewolve]

Pcray & Tuna
Ditto Tuna on Dai Riki ,as for Seaguar thats all i use in saltwater. For saltwater i will use nothing else unless Seaguar's quality gets crappy.
Now I'm really confused i thought that Rio Flouroflex plus was their best flouro?I mean if im gonna spend good money while i still have a job i want the thinnest best flouro.
Let me know
Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines
Rick Wallace
P.S. im a lil confused about rio tippet products is all

 

[bam]

I usually use 2 or 4lb test fishing line for my tippet section. Berkley Trilene or Vansih. I may use some good fluro or mono tippet if I'm after steelhead or fishing tiny dries... but for the price of a spool and the size of fish I typically get into, fishing line meets my needs. We're talking pennies vs a buck for every time I tie on a new meter long section.

 

[gfen]

I'm on Bam's side re flouro.

I bought a spool of Trielene 100% FC in 4#. It works just fine for my needs when compared to the cost of actual FC tippet.

 

[TUNA]

Rio Powerflex - Not fluoro, its a copolymer IIRC
Rio Fluoroflex - Fluoro, it works but for $2-$3 more get the Plus
Rion Fluoroflex Plus - Really awesome Fluoro

I've tried several different fluorocarbon tippets and always come back to the Rio Fluoroflex Plus. I will say the Seaguar is close, but I still prefer the Rio.

 

[pcray1231]

Lonewolf, not understanding your confusion. Can't go thinner, because 5x is 5x, thats a measure of the diameter. Can get higher strength for that thickness, which correlates to abrasion resistance. But you sacrifice suppleness to do that. Always trade-offs.

Rio Fluoroflex = Fluorocarbon
Rio Powerflex = copolymer (commonly called mono, i.e. NOT a fluorocarbon)

Those are the only 2 Rio tippets I've ever tried. Looking at their website, they also have:

Rio Suppleflex - copolymer. Premium version of Powerflex, supposed to be more supple.

Rio Fluoroflex Plus - Fluorocarbon. Premium version of fluoroflex. Supposed to be more Supple.

RioMax- Doesn't say what it is, but it markets itself as a stiff tippet meant for streamers, with a slick coating. Wouldn't surprise me if this was actually a nylon-fluoro hybrid.

Then some saltwater, braided, and wire tippets.

So, if I had to guess, in order of stiffness (stiffest first):

RioMax, fluoroflex, fluoroflex Plus, Powerflex, Suppleflex

Abrasion resistance would likely be the reverse order. So, if your biggest concern is perfect, drag free drifts, get something on the right side. If you want knot strength, breaking strength, and longevity, get something on the left side. But you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Lonewolve]

I guess ill try the flouroflex plus,but for saltwater i am sold on Seaguar,freshwater i will see.
I also tried vanish on ny tribs, its not strong enough and the abrasion resistance sucks.
I spend usually 2-3 weeks a year fishing up there and its strictly Maxima and seaguar depending on conditions .
I will try the rio though thnx Pcray and Tuna
I agree its expensive for 30 meters way to expensive i prefer 100 yd spools if i could get em i know at Flyfisher's Paradise they sell Orvis SuperStrong on 30 or 100 yrd spools.
Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines
Rick Wallace

 

[MKern]

Dia Riki does suck.

I couldn't get a knot to hold or form in air temps over 80 or under 60.

 

[skiltonian]

lonewolf - you lost me at "mono is usually ruined once it gets wet "