And here is why I don't buy from the little guy........

[littlelehigh]

Just have to throw this one out there.....
Over the past couple of weeks since I asked where do you shop I have compiled a material list of things I'd like to purchase in the near future. Now preffering to shop in my home state and with the little guy vs. big box chains I put together a list of materials totaling over $75. I found one out of state smaller co. willing to ship for free and one instate for $7.50!!!!! I won't mention any names.............. So I thought I would give them the opportunity to match the other offer I found online much to my disappointment they were firm regarding there shipping charges. Now I know you guys are willing to pay alittle more for the conversation and helpful hints you receive when purchasing your materials and I agree with that. But that is not practical for me. So I come to the conclusion out of towners if you will are more of a nusense that they do not want to be bothered with but yet they shipped me a catalog no problem so I don't get it. I was not ordering anything big or bulky just thread etc.

Sorry just had to rant but that was the highest shipping cost of all the stores I looked at on the internet and this just rubbed me wrong.

I really would like to help out the small guys but when they try to bend you over like that it gets really hard. I'm sure some of you may have some choice words for me and I am not writing this to upset anyone just state the facts.

 

[tomgamber]

"So I come to the conclusion out of towners if you will are more of a nusense that they do not want to be bothered with but yet they shipped me a catalog no problem so I don't get it."

I don't get what you say here...you mentioned before the out of PA place shipped free...but if I think I understand what it says above, I have no idea....now out of towners are a nuisance ? I can;t agree or disagree...I have no idea what your point is...

 

[jayL]

tomgamber wrote:
"So I come to the conclusion out of towners if you will are more of a nusense that they do not want to be bothered with but yet they shipped me a catalog no problem so I don't get it."

I don't get what you say here...you mentioned before the out of PA place shipped free...but if I think I understand what it says above, I have no idea....now out of towners are a nuisance ? I can;t agree or disagree...I have no idea what your point is...

.

 

[JackM]

If I may, I think the small shop charging $7.50 is the one littlelehigh thinks has the attitude that out of towners are a nuisance.

Anyhow, if the difference on a $75 dollar order was only $7.50, even a cheapskate like me might shop with the small independent, particularly if what you are implying is that the material prices were competitive between the two.

 

[littlelehigh]

The material is priced competetivly until you added in the shipping. What I was trying to say was I don't think they care to send mail orders even though they mailed me a catalog. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[tomgamber]

That's what i thought but I didn't get that he was an out of towner.

If I am incapable of leaving the house, I go with whatever is cheaper, total price. If I can conveniently get it, right now when I need it for a fair price, I buy it face to face.

 

[trouthunting]

Same here...if I need it now and it's convenient I'm usually too lazy to be genuinely cheap.

However, if I'm shopping around I'll always take what is cheapest and fastest. Littlelehigh had the integrity to actually give the little guy a shot at matching the price. Props to that.

If you actively choose not to compete, then you don't get to complain that business isn't great, IMO.


I played the small business game all through college and I found (through various forums and whatnot) that a lot of small businesses would rather complain about big box stores and remain indignant rather than looking for a solution. No offense to any business owners; I realize it's not true for every small business.

 

[jayL]

trouthunting wrote:
I played the small business game all through college and I found (through various forums and whatnot) that a lot of small businesses would rather complain about big box stores and remain indignant rather than looking for a solution. No offense to any business owners; I realize it's not true for every small business.

Good point. I've heard many small business owners that were happier to sit around and say 'woe is me' about it, instead of addressing the concern. The better, more successful, small businesses know their niche. They provide incredible service at a reasonable mark up. I understand I'm not getting the cheapest prices when I go, but the service, hand tied flies, etc is worth it.

If the service isn't there, I may as well take the discount at the big box store. I've got no problem doing it.

If you want a burger, you can pay $10 at Monk's, or $2 at McDonald's. If I want the experience of it, I pay more. If I just want to eat, I'll go to McD's. The disparity between big box and little guy shops in FF isn't nearly as big as the burger example, but the concept still applies.

 

[littlelehigh]

Troutnut
I can't help but try to be honest and give them even a second chance to compete (there first chance was admitting they wanted $7.50 for shipping). What is killing me and I'm gonna say it even if it gets deleted is this was FFP (if you haven't figured it out already!)

These boards are filled with happy long time customers there website is great I never heard anything bad about them and then this. Now maybe it's not as big of a deal as I'm making it out to be but the economy is in the comode and you turned away a $75.00 order over $7.50.

Fly tyer's in State College must be spending cash like it's water at there store.....

 

[JustFish]

I like to give business to the little guy too. But I went to a fly shop last week and saw 4 inch by 4 inch patch of muskrat for 5 or 6 bucks. At a different shop I bought two little goose feathers in a pack for $4.50. Last year i got two foot long strips of muskrat on ebay for $8 and the seller threw in a patch of elkhair and a patch of mink. last week I bought 25 long goose feathers for 3.99 pus 3.50 shipping. I am by no means rich, so I got to look out for this little guy!!!

 

[JustFish]

With this economy I know for myself I really have to squeeze the quarter till th eagle screams

 

[MKern]

I agree with trouthunting too. I think little shops should put out "% off" coupons and offer free shipping during certain specials.
But again, your not getting the personal service by phoning in a order. You get personal service when you show up in person.

Not to stick up for the other guys, but try calling Cabelas or Bass Pro when they aren't running a special and ask for free shipping.

I do think small shops should offer free tying classes and other things to entice patrons. I feel that more fly fishermen (not ordinary people) would spend more $ in shops once they start b.s.ing with the workers, then by walking around cabelas.

 

[trowpa]

MKern wrote:
I do think small shops should offer free tying classes and other things to entice patrons. I feel that more fly fishermen (not ordinary people) would spend more $ in shops once they start b.s.ing with the workers, then by walking around cabelas.

Very true - the new "sporting lifestyle" Orvis shop that opened up near me is doing that (going for my second class tomorrow night) - I don't like the (lack of) selection and the prices, but i am MUCH more inclined to support them in turn for hosting free classes.

And i've gotten to know the owner and staff already - which goes a long way as well.

Side note about the store: Last week - the first class - one of the students knocked a huge moosehead off the wall and it pinned him on the floor - was pretty hilarious. The owner - Charlie - just laughed it off Also - i had forgotten my whip finisher - charlie saw me whip finishing by hand and went and just gave me a tool free of charge to keep. Was a nice gesture. I won't feel so bad buying a pack of hooks for $8.50 next time.


Its the small personal things that make the difference to me.

 

[jayL]

trowpa wrote:

MKern wrote:
I do think small shops should offer free tying classes and other things to entice patrons. I feel that more fly fishermen (not ordinary people) would spend more $ in shops once they start b.s.ing with the workers, then by walking around cabelas.

Very true - the new "sporting lifestyle" Orvis shop that opened up near me is doing that (going for my second class tomorrow night) - I don't like the (lack of) selection and the prices, but i am MUCH more inclined to support them in turn for hosting free classes.

And i've gotten to know the owner and staff already - which goes a long way as well.

Side note about the store: Last week - the first class - one of the students knocked a huge moosehead off the wall and it pinned him on the floor - was pretty hilarious. The owner - Charlie - just laughed it off Also - i had forgotten my whip finisher - charlie saw me whip finishing by hand and went and just gave me a tool free of charge to keep. Was a nice gesture. I won't feel so bad buying a pack of hooks for $8.50 next time.


Its the small personal things that make the difference to me.

Good story.

I'll pay the extra for these kind of perks. I shopped at cabela's exclusively through college to save money, but I feel I owe a few bucks to the fly shops when I can afford it. Whether or not I can is debatable, but I've got no problem splurging at a few of my favorite shops a few times per year.

I'll have to check out the new orvis based on this. If they are willing to BS with me a bit, I'll probably spend 20 or 30 bucks.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

trowpa wrote:

Very true - the new "sporting lifestyle" Orvis shop that opened up near me is doing that (going for my second class tomorrow night) - I don't like the (lack of) selection and the prices, but i am MUCH more inclined to support them in turn for hosting free classes.

And i've gotten to know the owner and staff already - which goes a long way as well.

Side note about the store: Last week - the first class - one of the students knocked a huge moosehead off the wall and it pinned him on the floor - was pretty hilarious. The owner - Charlie - just laughed it off Also - i had forgotten my whip finisher - charlie saw me whip finishing by hand and went and just gave me a tool free of charge to keep. Was a nice gesture. I won't feel so bad buying a pack of hooks for $8.50 next time.


Its the small personal things that make the difference to me.

Charlie has really impressed me so far. He's a good guy, and really wants to take care of his customers.

That moose head is HUGE! How the heck did this guy knock it down? Its a whole lot easier to just get a package of moose body hair off the shelf...... :-D

Their tying section is looking better by the day. If there is something you don't see, just ask and they'll happily get it for you. This guy has such a good attitude, it'd be nice if the shop was a success. According to Charlie, he's booked a friend of mine to do a class on April 4th. It's going to be done by Heather Seitz, who was a member of the 2007 Youth Team USA/PA. Heather is one heck of a fly fisher - this class should be very enlightening for the folks in the Valley.


Heather Seitz:

 

[tabasco_joe]

Heritage-Angler wrote:

Charlie has really impressed me so far. He's a good guy, and really wants to take care of his customers.

That moose head is HUGE! How the heck did this guy knock it down? Its a whole lot easier to just get a package of moose body hair off the shelf...... :-D

Their tying section is looking better by the day. If there is something you don't see, just ask and they'll happily get it for you. This guy has such a good attitude, it'd be nice if the shop was a success. According to Charlie, he's booked a friend of mine to do a class on April 4th. It's going to be done by Heather Seitz, who was a member of the 2007 Youth Team USA/PA. Heather is one heck of a fly fisher - this class should be very enlightening for the folks in the Valley.


I was up fishing the LL early in January and decided to stop by and check it out. Only one other person in the store over in the clothing section. Initially no one came to help me out. Kind of got the cold shoulder when I asked a question looking for some hooks. I was dressed in old boots and coveralls. I certainly got the feeling that they were more interested in selling the fancy Orvis clothing than fly fishing gear. Be a long time before I'm back.

 

[afishinado]

JayL wrote: “If you want a burger, you can pay $10 at Monk's, or $2 at McDonald's. If I want the experience of it, I pay more. If I just want to eat, I'll go to McD's.”


Ya but Jay, you can’t get this at Mickie D’s:

http://www.monkscafe.com/body.cfm?nav=beers&data=beers

FFP and many independent shops are like Lindemans Framboise, while Cabelas and Bass Pro are Bud and Miller. You can learn a lot from just a short conversation with Steve at FFP. Try getting info or advise on equipment or fishing from Cabelas or BP. Need a special dubbing to match the hatch an X Creek, or a killer pattern for Y stream, how about the place and time to fish the Z hatch….try to get that with the big boxers.

I too buy some things from Cabelas, mostly clothing, and I buy some bargain or hard-to-find items from some of the on-line shops, but I do value the services from the smaller local shops. The smaller FF shops, for the most part, sell many of the same rods, reels, etc., for the same price as the big box stores. If you’re looking for a Sage, Winston, Loomis, Scott, etc. rods, which aren’t discounted, why not buy it from the independent shops for the same price? You are able to cast the rod at the shop, and they are sure to give you advise on the best rod for your casting ability and the type of fishing you do. They also will help you set it up with the right reel, line etc. The less experience you have as a FF, the more you need help at these shops. Ironically it seems many experienced FFers buy from the shops, while many guys starting out buy from the big boxers. You CAN get an inexpensive FF outfit at many of the small shops, and it will actually work well for you. You can get flies that actually catch fish from them too. Even if you’re a beginning FFer, chances are better than not you know more than the guy behind the counter of the big box strore.

Mkern made a good point, try negotiating with Cabelas or Bass Pro on free shipping with your order when they are not running a sale. And as Trowpa relayed his experience, ask the big boxers for a free whip finisher when you forgot yours at their free fly tying seminar – oops, they don’t run free seminars, and you’re out of luck with the tool you need.

If the price is close, which it often is, I chose to buy from the independent FF shops. We’ll all be sorry when they disappear, and the big boxers have no competition.

 

[MattBoyer]

Not to start an argument afish, as you've made some good points, but Cabelas does, in fact give advice on many streams in my area and on Thursday nights Bob Clouser jr. gives free tying classes at the BP in H-burg. I happen to live in an area where fly shops are few and far between, so whenever I go to a fly shop I'm and "outsider" and often treated as such. I've never gone to BP or Cabelas without someone immediately coming over to ask me what they can help me with, and I definitely am not rocking the Orvis look. This is only my experience and actual mileage may vary.

Boyer

 

[afishinado]

Matt,

No argument. Admittedly, I don't get to Cabelas very often, but when I have, many times the person behind the counter was not very knowledgeable. That has never happened to me at FFP or most other shops. But even so, my purchase at Cabelas does little, very little, to help the bottom line of Cabelas, while a purchase at FFP or any other small shop is a big deal for them. And, like I pointed out earlier, on items that are not discounted and are sold for the same price, why not buy from the small shop to help them out AND get good service and advice on the purchase.

I do understand, that given where you live, I too wouldn't drive 100 miles to buy a pack of hooks and some split shot.

 

[MattBoyer]

Agreed. All things being equal I'll usually try a smaller shop, but I have had very few good experiences at them and rarely have a bad service experience at the BB's. This spring if we get to hit the Wiconisco we can stop by the poor little gun and tackle shop that is across the street from a relatively new Walmart. I always stop by there when I'm up in the valley and try to give them some business, although my hooks and tippet are probably a drop in the bucket compared to the AR15 and L1A1 behind the counter.

Boyer