A soft whisper!

Agree with them as well.

There's no question there's a few streams where it's a net loss to the angler. Mainly these are smaller acidic streams in which brook trout were stocked and are not suitable for rainbows or browns, and do not, and would not, hold a sizable wild trout population.

But while a bit sad for those streams, all in all, it's just not worth the risk. For every one of those streams, there are 20 more with viable wild brook trout populations. Giving up 1 fishery to protect 20 others is an easy call, IMO.

We're giving up on stocking a species we'd like to stock, due to a parasite. A parasite is something nobody asked for and nobody wants. This situation isn't something to rejoice over. My feelings are more a somber acknowledgement that this is a negative situation and the PFBC has little choice but to sacrifice a few for the good of many. It's like throwing a troublesome kid off a team. You don't like that you have to do it, but it's what has to be done.
 
Stocking Trout period in streams that have a viable, fishable wild Trout population is a bad thing, ecologically speaking. Stocking Brookies in streams that have wild Brookies is an even worse thing. Maybe the gill lice argument is legit (I'm sure at least in part, it is), maybe it's also the scapegoat for cost...Browns and Rainbows grow faster and are cheaper. I don't care either way.

My favorite small stream period in PA is a Brook Trout only STW...It has wild Brookies, but by biomass, it's a wild Brown Trout stream. It also has class A level biomass, but is stocked, and is not one of the 10 or so streams listed as such in the reg book. I have the surveys. I'd love to see it disappear from the stocking list...It's the first thing I check every year when the new reg book is posted.

Usually every July or August after a good rain I try to go and fish it. I typically have a very good day, catching mostly wild Browns and a few wild Brooks. I usually turn up a few rogue stocker Brookies too, usually in the best, primo lies. The first five I encounter (though I don't always catch five), generally don't live through the experience. :-o. #TastyStockedGemmies. Haven't done that yet this year...I know I've been asking for the rain to stop to get some Smallie fishing in, but I could probably let one more good rain slide by...
 
Matt- I know exactly which stream you are referring to. When I lived closer, I fished it fairly frequently. Like you, I wish that one was managed differently. I don't have the heart to whack the stocker brooks I catch there, but don't let me stop you :)
 
Even in my old age I've learned something from reading maxima12's posts: I'm no good at deciphering cryptic messages!
 
I tried reading some of them after a glass or two of Wild Turkey 101 on the rocks, but the message didn't get any clearer.
 
Old Lefty, just trying to keep that dying mind, alive and well! You will thank me someday!

As far as wild turkey 101, I see the problem right off. A glass or two! When you drink with the maxima12, make sure you bring your own bottle! One would never be enough for the both of us!

A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".

Think about it!

Maxima12
 
Wild_Trouter wrote:
I don't have the heart to whack the stocker brooks I catch there, but don't let me stop you :)
Click to expand...

As much as I maybe shouldn't, honestly, I struggle with it too. I fished that stream in late April or early May this year and caught a bunch of the stocked Brooks. It fished well that day, but probably half of what I caught were stockers. By far the most stockers I've ever caught in it, though I generally don't fish it that early in the season. Can't say I was thrilled about it. Nearly every good lie held a stocker instead of a wild Brown like I was used to later in the season. It's clear the stockers displace the wild fish, or outcompete them for potential food, at least temporarily. Wasn't planning on catching that many stockers, and I didn't pack a gallon ziplock in my pack to put them in, so I let them all go that day.

That early in the season they still taste like junk. I can justify it easier knowing I'll eat them. I mean I eat other living things...cows, chickens, etc. By July or August they've been on a wild diet enough to taste like a wild fish. I still always pause and contemplate whether I should be letting them go before I bonk them though.

I don't normally kill wild fish to eat...Maybe one or two per year if I'm on an overnight backpacking trip, or if I know I've accidentally mortally wounded one somehow. Had a 12" Bow get gill hooked earlier this year somehow. In typical Rainbow fashion the fish was spastic while I was trying to carefully remove the hook. Ripped one side of his gills out. Kept him, but that's the only fish I've kept so far this year.
 
Last weekend I was out and caught a mix of wild browns and brookies. It was amazingly apparent that they browns fought harder, but once in hand, the brookies flopped around FAR more.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Last weekend I was out and caught a mix of wild browns and brookies. It was amazingly apparent that they browns fought harder, but once in hand, the brookies flopped around FAR more.
Click to expand...

My general experience is that Bows are BY FAR worse than Brookies and Browns as far as their behavior out of the water. Across the board, stocked or wild. I generally don't notice much of a difference between Brooks and Browns. Most behave pretty well. Every once in a while you get a spastic one, of either species.

But Bows, you can count on them being spastic. Earlier this year I was fishing a small unstocked NC freestoner with my FIL. I was maybe 50 yards downstream of him and I saw him land a nice sized (12" range) fish for this stream. I could immediately tell he was struggling with the fish, and it was going nuts as he was trying to unhook it. I yelled up, "Rainbow?" He was busy with the fish and didn't respond. I got up to him just as he was releasing it. He said "how'd you know that, there's not normally Rainbows in here?" I said I could just tell by its behavior out of the water. Only Rainbow we caught that day to probably 30 or 40 combined Browns and Brooks.
 
If this rainbow thing catches on, we won't have any more questions about whether the brookie we just caught is wild or stocked.
 
maxima12 wrote:
...... A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".

Think about it!

Maxima12
Click to expand...
I’ve seen several. I had a pet crow in my youth. My uncle found the nest on his farm. A birder that we knew suggested May 20th was the best day to take them from the nest. The birder’s son also got one. My uncle left one in the nest. In hindsight, I wouldn’t do it again but it was pretty neat as a kid. Fed him Alpo out of a can. But in the end my pet raccoons were more fun.
 
Prospector wrote:
maxima12 wrote:
...... A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".

Think about it!

Maxima12
Click to expand...
I’ve seen several. I had a pet crow in my youth. My uncle found the nest on his farm. A birder that we knew suggested May 20th was the best day to take them from the nest. The birder’s son also got one. My uncle left one in the nest. In hindsight, I wouldn’t do it again but it was pretty neat as a kid. Fed him Alpo out of a can. But in the end my pet raccoons were more fun.
Click to expand...

Did you teach it any words?

When I was a kid, my cousin raised a pair of them and at least one would say a few words. I don't remember the background on how they were acquired.

She didn't keep them in a cage and it was kind of strange to hear what seemed like a wild crow say hello.

Don't know the purpose of the question, but I'm sure there was one.

 
A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".
Click to expand...

Yes.

But not often. They are nearly full size when they fledge, and thus, hard to distinguish from adults.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".
Click to expand...

Yes.

But not often. They are nearly full size when they fledge, and thus, hard to distinguish from adults.
Click to expand...

Classic. :lol: pcray is officially back.
 
pcray1231 wrote:
Last weekend I was out and caught a mix of wild browns and brookies. It was amazingly apparent that they browns fought harder, but once in hand, the brookies flopped around FAR more.
Click to expand...

I've noticed this also.
It seems to me that brookies are more slippery to grasp to remove the hook. And maybe why they flop more
 
Do hatcheries in other states have the gill lice issue with brook trout? Seems a shame that our state fish commission will no longer be stocking our state fish, but will continue to dump non-native species in our waters. Whats the risk of hatchery raised brookies in strictly put and take streams? They're meant to be harvested anyhow.

Ah, no big thing - it's not conservation or preservation of natural resources, its just recreational fishing. They could stock snakeheads and it wouldn't be any different.

But if I were King of the World, all non-native stocking will be eliminated. On second thought, the King has a better proclamation: All stocking would be eliminated unless it was to restore a native population...
 
Yes, other states have been hit. Michigan hurt a little more. Strange as it may be, the fish commissions in states have blamed the gill lice on co-op nurseries. Low water, drought conditions, over crowded fish.

Now as I look back, co-ops were in operation to stock streams not stocked by commissions years ago. Fishermen paid little attention to the co-ops. They were of the private nature, if you were not a member, you did not know where the fish went.

I guess it probably started in the early 90's. Or, lets just say started well before that but reached boiling point in 90's. Pa. was in a world of doom. I would say shot itself in foot several times. Could it have been mismanagement? Who knows! Someone knows the real reason.

Co-ops became the gleaming jewel as hatcheries were opted out. Why fix them up, with what, no money, why not just shut them down, take an easy route. Let others do the work, basically for free!

Salvation to the commission. Whoa! Sorry it was so short lived.

Gill lice? legal or illegal? I would bet fish infected could be dumped in streams. Gill Lice not known to affect brown or rainbow. Nothing illegal about gill lice.


So, I guess, do like you always do. Just opt it out. Naturally being no scientist, I would think research could eliminate a problem like this. who wants research anyway. A waste of time and money. Lets just wait for fin rot. Then maybe will talk about it!


Maxima12
 
FarmerDave wrote:
Prospector wrote:
maxima12 wrote:
...... A question for all sportsman! "have you ever seen a baby crow".

Think about it!

Maxima12
Click to expand...
I’ve seen several. I had a pet crow in my youth. My uncle found the nest on his farm. A birder that we knew suggested May 20th was the best day to take them from the nest. The birder’s son also got one. My uncle left one in the nest. In hindsight, I wouldn’t do it again but it was pretty neat as a kid. Fed him Alpo out of a can. But in the end my pet raccoons were more fun.
Click to expand...

Did you teach it any words?

When I was a kid, my cousin raised a pair of them and at least one would say a few words. I don't remember the background on how they were acquired.

She didn't keep them in a cage and it was kind of strange to hear what seemed like a wild crow say hello.

Don't know the purpose of the question, but I'm sure there was one.
Click to expand...
No, I didn’t have it long enough. It developed an issue with it’s legs and I had to put it to sleep before school started in the fall. In hindsight it was pretty amazing how quickly it adapted to me being it’s parent. I guess it was all about the food. When it began to fly it would come back to me, but when its leg problems started it couldn’t fly anymore.
 
Until the Fish and Boat Commission changes the regulations on private stocking, and somehow gets enough money to hire more WCO's, my fear is that the stocking will continue by private parties. I've spoken with a biologist at the state about this, and it's pretty shocking how many trout are stocked that the PAFBC has no idea about.

I fished a brookie only stream (some wild but a lot of state/co-op stocked) in April and found a huge pod of 9" to 12" rainbows. When I told the biologist about this, he was shocked. Said there weren't supposed to be any rainbows in that stream.

So I assume the state will send a memorandum to the co-op hatcheries to stop producing brook trout, and they'll stop supplying fingerlings, BUT, the private hatcheries that stock wherever/whenever they want, will not get the memo. Right now, you can go dump a bucket of trout in any water you like. No laws against it. I would almost bet money on a few streams I know getting stocked with something if the state/co-ops stop stocking brookies. That's going to be a problem since they're supposed to be "brookie only" streams. They get fished HARD, and those folks aren't going to simply stop fishing/stocking those streams. IMO, it's going to be a real mess.
 
maxima12 wrote:


So, I guess, do like you always do. Just opt it out. Naturally being no scientist, I would think research could eliminate a problem like this. who wants research anyway. A waste of time and money. Lets just wait for fin rot. Then maybe will talk about it!


Maxima12
Click to expand...

You are right about that. But research has shown that the easiest way to stop shooting yourself in the foot is to run out of bullets.
 
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